# Sorority dog fight **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 18, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984 "2017-11-18T14:45:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/1 "2017-11-18T14:45:55Z")
Of all the Great Issues currently engaging our attention (climate change, war with North Korea, taxes and healthcare, the Roy Moore/Al Franken meltdowns etc.), none is more important than this, so pay attention: which of these sorority sisters should prevail in their battle over a therapy dog? In brief: Madeleine Entine wants to keep her 8-year-old ruby Cavalier King Charles spaniel (Cory relieves Madeleine’s panic attacks) in the sorority house. Another sorority sister, Cary Goldman, complained that the dog’s presence aggravates her allergies and Crohn’s disease, and wants the beast removed. There are potentially dueling Americans with Disability Act claims here, but since only Entine has official ADA status so far, a U.S. District judge has ruled that Ohio State can’t boot out the dog until the case goes to trial. [Story and photo here](https://www.thelantern.com/2017/11/chi-omega-sorority-sisters-take-therapy-dog-dispute-to-court/). This is a tough call for me. I am generally fond of dogs, and especially Cavaliers (I’ve had three of them). The Cav in question here is a beauty. I can attest to their calming effects. And this dog’s owner is a damsel in distress if there ever was one (today’s story in the Columbus Dispatch notes that “the dog licks the tears from her face when she can’t reach for tissues”. I ask you.) Nevertheless, my sympathy is more with the allergic housemate. The university has offered to put Madeleine and her dog up in alternate housing, but she insists that she should have access to sorority life. So, should the dog stay or go? ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/2 "2017-11-18T15:18:42Z")
While I feel sympathy for Miss Goldman, I say screw her and her allergies. It would seem, from what little info is in the story you linked, that an inference that she’s never witnessed a severe panic attack wouldn’t be amiss. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/3 "2017-11-18T15:27:49Z")
Fun answer: Move the two women into different sections within the sorority house. Make the allergic one keep the dog with her constantly and make the panicky one do completely without the dog, never to see or touch it, nor allow her to get a replacement. The first one to cave loses. 😃 Trial by combat always works; we just need to define “combat” appropriately. Serious answer: Right now the panicky one has the force of law behind her. So that’s the answer. Once the allergic one gets a proper diagnosis from the right authority then the law becomes a tie. What then? IMO … My general attitude is that in dense environments freedom from is more important than freedom to. We each have an affirmative obligation to minimize our second and third order effects on others. Why? Because they outnumber us umpteen million to one and living with umpteen million people each doing their selfish damndest to the people around them is bad. In very low density environments the balance of duties and benefits goes the other way. Some guy far out in ruralia can spin donuts in his front yard in his mufflerless pickup truck at 6 am on Saturday to his heart’s content. He has freedom to because nobody else around needs freedom from. That’s not so in the city. Consider the arguments about second-hand tobacco smoke. The end state is that tobacco smoke production is not allowed in high density places but is fully allowed in low to nil density places. These women are living in a group home. That’s high density. Ms. Allergy wins and Ms. Panicky loses. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/4 "2017-11-18T15:44:23Z")
From the OP’s link: > [@](#): > > Her certified therapy dog is trained to lay on her stomach when she suffers a panic attack. Certified therapy dog? I was under the impression that there was no one sanctioned government agency tasked with certifying therapy animals; has that changed or did I misunderstand? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/5 "2017-11-18T15:46:12Z")
One’s accommodation ceases to be reasonable when it results in harm to someone else. It’s kind of funny because people with allergies and people with anxiety disorders share similar stigmas, with healthy people often assuming they both need to “suck it up”. As someone who has experienced a taste of both conditions, I appreciate how disabling they can be. I know panic attacks are pretty horrible, but so is Crohn’s disease. I agree with the school’s decision to give priority to Goldman, the one with the allergies, since she signed the lease first. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/6 "2017-11-18T15:54:56Z")
No one has heard of either Claritin or Xanax? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/7 "2017-11-18T16:12:14Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > No one has heard of either Claritin or Xanax? they’re not 100% effective especially if you have severe allergies. If they’re bad enough, the Gen 2 antihistamines can merely take them from “unbearable” to “miserable.” I take a Claritin daily pretty much from when the snow melts through september, and even then in peak pollen/ragweed season I still get symptoms. of course, the gen 1 antihistamines (e.g. Benadryl) are pretty powerful but they have the well-known side effect of knocking you on your ass. (edited to clarify I’m only talking about the allergy side) ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/8 "2017-11-18T16:13:38Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > No one has heard of either Claritin or Xanax? Have you ever heard of medications not working for some people? ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/9 "2017-11-18T16:14:25Z")
I see a future where sororities advertise on-site therapy dogs. These women will be taking these dogs to class, too. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/10 "2017-11-18T16:17:26Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > No one has heard of either Claritin or Xanax? They do very little for many people’s allergies. And as Snowboarder Bo stated, there is no solid legal standing for a “therapy” or “emotional support” dog. You can get one certified, but only through therapists or private entities that have no legal clout - [many just take your money and send you a certificate on fancy paper](http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2016/01/14/turkey-ruffles-feathers-about-emotional-support-animals-on-flights.html). It’s not the same thing as an actual service dog or monkey which has gone through rigorous training to aide their human. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/11 "2017-11-18T16:21:59Z")
> [@](#): > > I agree with the school’s decision to give priority to Goldman, the one with the allergies, since she signed the lease first. I agree as well. If dog girl moved in after allergy girl, dog girl has to go. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/12 "2017-11-18T17:21:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > From the OP’s link:Certified therapy dog? I was under the impression that there was no one sanctioned government agency tasked with certifying therapy animals; has that changed or did I misunderstand? Some states have taken some steps to demand certain standards of certification in exchange for the right to bypass some “no pets/animals allowed” rules in public and semi-private places. Others states have done nothing. It’s the typical US mishmash. ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/13 "2017-11-18T18:00:17Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > This is a tough call for me. Me too. I can’t fault the University for giving precedence to whoever signed the lease first. Whether permitted to or not, it would be highly distasteful for the university to rank disabilities. I am assuming that the university, in arriving at its decision, had access to greater information about Ms Allergy’s allergies and effects in Crohn’s disease and there are no reasonable steps she can take to minimize her allergies - such as the availability of safe and effective medicine. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/14 "2017-11-18T18:14:15Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > They do very little for many people’s allergies. > > And as Snowboarder Bo stated, there is no solid legal standing for a “therapy” or “emotional support” dog. You can get one certified, but only through therapists or private entities that have no legal clout - [many just take your money and send you a certificate on fancy paper](http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2016/01/14/turkey-ruffles-feathers-about-emotional-support-animals-on-flights.html). It’s not the same thing as an actual service dog or monkey which has gone through rigorous training to aide their human. I’ve done some research on “service animals” in connection with a non profit. According to the ADA therapy animals, including dogs, are not service animals. Dogs that alert to oncoming seizures, yes. Comfort, no. GaryM ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/15 "2017-11-18T18:37:01Z")
The answer here is to try to get the dog elected as the sorority’s mascot. You can’t kick out the mascot, so if successful, the dog wins and the allergic one moves out;if the dog loses, the panicky one moves out. And her little dog, too. I am frankly surprised at Chi O for allowing members in who have obvious defects like panic attacks and Crohn’s. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/16 "2017-11-18T19:30:06Z")
Holy Shit, what a bunch of whiney ass cry babies. This is why every decision polarizes our country. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/17 "2017-11-18T19:41:31Z")
Which one? The one who’s afraid to go outside without her [del]teddy bear[/del] doggy or the one whose immune system is so defective she’s dying while just standing around? If we kill the weak we’ll only get stronger. Maybe the Chi-O’s need to have more “rigorous” pledge initiation process. Kinda like some FSU & Ohio State frats do. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/18 "2017-11-18T19:41:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Her certified therapy dog is trained to lay on her stomach when she suffers a panic attack. She needs a therapy chicken. Dogs can’t lay. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/19 "2017-11-18T19:42:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Some states have taken some steps to demand certain standards of certification in exchange for the right to bypass some “no pets/animals allowed” rules in public and semi-private places. > > Others states have done nothing. It’s the typical US mishmash. Which states and what have they done, tho? If the requirement is “have a certificate; it doesn’t matter where you got it” then the requirement seems meaningless. While trying to look that up, I did find this tho: > [@](#): > > The federal Fair Housing Act also prohibits discrimination in housing accommodations against those who use service animals. > You must be allowed full and equal access to all housing facilities, and may not be charged extra for having a service animal (although you may have to pay for damage your animal causes). If your lease or rental agreement includes a “no pets” provision, it does not apply to your service animal. > Pursuant to the federal Fair Housing Act, housing facilities must allow service dogs, miniature horses, and emotional support animals, if necessary for a person with a disability to have an equal opportunity to use and enjoy the home. To fall under this provision, you must have a disability and you must have a disability-related need for the animal. In other words, the animal must work, perform tasks or services, or alleviate the emotional effects of your disability in order to qualify. And [here are the Department of Housing and Urban Development rules on service animals](https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/SERVANIMALS_NTCFHEO2013-01.PDF). The story linked in the OP tells us that > [@](#): > > According to court documents, Entine said she suffers from panic attacks that, when severe enough, restrict her breathing and render her immobile. Her certified therapy dog is trained to lay on her stomach when she suffers a panic attack. That is the first time I have ever heard of that training for that ailment. Is there any validity to this? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984/20 "2017-11-18T19:58:38Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > She needs a therapy chicken. Dogs can’t lay. Seriously. What are they teaching them in internet reporter school these days? What’s up with the university making the decision? I thought that sororities and fraternities were organizations separate from the school. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorority-dog-fight/801984.md?page=2)