# Sorry, but "The Doors" were no more than average . . . at best **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 23, 2001, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138 "2001-10-23T18:14:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/21 "2001-10-24T13:12:42Z")
Kim, Kim, Kim, Kim, Kim… Is there no way to rescue you? \ Your sad devotion to that ancient religion… \ I’ve always been in favor of a constitutional amendment forbidding rock and roll bands from releasing more than 3 albums with the same line up. And don’t expect to hear much classic rock at the Dope-A-Ween. This is your official notice. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/22 "2001-10-24T13:21:03Z")
One pretty good album, then a couple of decent albums bookending some real crap. JMO. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/23 "2001-10-24T14:11:39Z")
Jesus, if you guys are this hard on The Doors, I shudder to think what you say about _Steppenwolf_ late in the dark dark night behind closed shutters. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/24 "2001-10-24T14:33:12Z")
It’s interesting that you increasingly hear the Doors and the Dead mentioned in the same breath. They seemed so different in their approach and style. The Dead were definitely more on the virtuosic side than the Doors, and the latter were certainly more commercial although possessing a unique musical power of their own. The two groups never were friendly, although Ray Manzarek, in his [autobiography](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0425170454/qid=1003933493/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/002-0904932-6724813) recounts an amusing encounter with the Dead’s PigPen. Both groups were on the same bill and the Doors were following the Dead, and, as luck would have it, both PigPen and Ray used the exact same kind of organ. So Ray asked if he could use Pig’s, saving everyone the trouble of changing two organs that were the same, and PigPen basically blew him off. Those who want to see a good “anti-Doors” site (though I don’t agree with their critical approach) should go [here](http://www.warr.org/doors.html). A more favorable site is [here](http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll). Let the best site win. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/25 "2001-10-24T14:35:41Z")
I always thought Malkovich and Metcalf were somewhat overrated, tho I am kinda fonda Sinise. And their new digs are sweet. But you know me. Looking for adventure in whatever comes my way. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/26 "2001-10-24T14:38:45Z")
Oh yeah - I also preferred _Siddhartha_. Don’t mind me - just passing through. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/27 "2001-10-24T14:45:22Z")
Out of nowhere, there have been some amazingly good tribute albums done recently. Deadicated for the Grateful Dead, Nativity in Black, vol 1 and 2, for Black Sabbath, and Stoned Immaculate, for the Doors. Very good stuff, with old Moog organs, too. Half the tracks are with the living members of the Doors, including one Nat/Natalie Cole like duet with John Lee Hooker. Aerosmith, William S. Burroughs, Creed, Smashmouth, Days of the New (Excellent group, though when they split and half went and formed Tantric, I think the talent went with Tantric), Stone Temple Pilots, The Cult, Oleander, Perry Farrel, Bo Diddley (Does a version of Love Her Madly called Love Her Madley), and Days of the New. Worth picking up. Even if just for the sound of a Moog. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/28 "2001-10-24T15:16:33Z")
My favorite Door’s song is also the Alabama Song. . .oh, wait, that’s actually a Bertold Brecht/ Kurt Weil song, isn’t it? From 1930 or so? ---
**Author:** ![Breezy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@Breezy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Breezy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/29 "2001-10-24T16:29:02Z")
I think that part of the reason that The Doors are so popular is that their songs are so sexually charged. Does anyone else listen to the Doors CD during sex?? Very inspiring. haha Mr Breezy and I have the 2 CD set. Works out nicely!!! :):)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_The\_Bold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dale\_The\_Bold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_The_Bold)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/30 "2001-10-24T23:12:25Z")
It’s good to see that there are others who don’t like The Doors. I’ve been verbally assaulted for voicing my opinion on this issue, but I think it’s Jim Morisson’s voice. He sounds like he’s bored, or possibly so doped up that he can only put a so-so hmmph effort into his song. My brother said the same thing of Elvis, but I think Morrisson in far worse. Next time you yawn, say “Riders on the storm” in mid-yawn and you sound astonishingly similar to Jim Morrisson. “Light My Fire” puts me to sleep. Whenever I hear that song start, I say “Oh well, The Doors are being played, the time to be entertained is through.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2001, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/31 "2001-10-24T23:34:53Z")
I think Denis Leary summed it up best (about Morrison): “I’m drunk, I’m nobody I’m drunk, I’m famous I’m drunk, I’m dead.” ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/32 "2001-10-25T02:00:15Z")
I opened this thread expecting to post something vaguely agreeing with the OP, but one look at the songs people have mentioned brought back a lot of memories. I might go and fire up my stereo. The Doors were good. Jim Morrison was brilliant, but I must admit he was a bit of a self-important tosser. I think that’s what puts a lot of people off. Still, my theory is that The Doors hadn’t yet done their best work when Morrison died; they were just starting to get bluesy and a whole lot less self conscious. But I don’t think his poetry was very good. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/33 "2001-10-25T02:27:01Z")
I think one of the major things keeping The Doors around is the mystique surrounding the death of Jim Morrison. He had the good fortune to die around the same time as Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix, two other “geniuses” who died prematurely. Had it not been for their deaths, they’d either be playing Vegas or doing half-sold-out stadium tours a la the Rolling Stones. That said, I do like their music. I just think the legend overtook it. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/34 "2001-10-25T02:28:33Z")
_rubs hands_ Ah, I’m so sorry I was late to this pathetic attempt at bashing my own personal god, but now that I’m here I’ll put in my two cents. They wereabsolutely the most innovative band of their genre. They did acid rock, art house music, down and dirty blues, and funk with aplomb, and NOBODY did atmospheric music like they did. As far as his poetry goes, it’s all in the beholder. I think his imagery was absolutely incredible. I have all his available poetry and it can keep me spellbound for hours. And the music…Good God was it awesome! If you listen to the epic songs and come away unscathed, well, let’s just say that your heart needs a good boost or something. The first time I ever heard “The End”, I had a feeling I never felt before. After trying a little reefer, I realized that I in fact got high from the music. That was a revelation for me, and since then I’ve been the enormous fanatic that I am now. YMMV, but nobody from that era compares, except for Jimi and Janis, and even then I’m not impressed. Jim was the total package, and his death was a genuine tragedy, both for me (even though I wasn’t even born yet) and for the world of music. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/35 "2001-10-25T02:42:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > \*\* > > Very good stuff, with old Moog organs, too. > Worth picking up. Even if just for the sound of a Moog. \*\* Moog made synths, not organs. Ray used primarily Vox organs, with a rhodes piano bass(a little short version of the rhodes electric piano). Moog did make of a couple of cheesy poly synths that could be called an organ, sort of, but not something anybody would really use. Moog was the king of the monophonic analog, an instrument that made wierd sounds, and one note at time leads, but couldnt play chords(even though I had a stienway in my living room growing up, I learned to play keys on an old Moog mono. I was such an idiot to sell it). They later made a couple of poly synths, such as the memory moog, and the poly moog, But these were not in any way shape of form organs. I used to own a single manual version of the Vox ray used, the Vox Jaguar. It was a hideous thing, that could only do that doors kinda sound. I should never have sold that one either. Most of the big bands used the mighty Hammond, I think Ray eventually used one as well, but I cant remember. I have one of these, and I have learned my lesson, it will never be sold. For those who think that the doors lacked talent, really listen to Ray is doing on those keyboard parts. They had no bass player, he played all the bass parts on that piano bass with his left hand while he did all those cool leads with his right. When I listen to the Doors, that is what does it for me, not Jim. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/36 "2001-10-25T03:40:08Z")
Moving this to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![absoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@absoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/absoul)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/37 "2001-10-25T03:47:08Z")
“The men don’t know, but the little girls understand.” ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/38 "2001-10-25T03:49:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by absoul \* > \*\*“The men don’t know, but the little girls understand.” \*\* Actually, that was a Willie Dixon lyric. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/39 "2001-10-25T04:19:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > > For those who think that the doors lacked talent, really listen to Ray is doing on those keyboard parts. They had no bass player, he played all the bass parts on that piano bass with his left hand while he did all those cool leads with his right. \*\* Damn straight on that! If you listen closely to a lot of the instrumental parts, especially the keyboard, you’ll notice that what sounds like an exact repitition is subtly different on the second or third go-around. I’m not musically technical enough to put it into words, except that it sounds like the later repeat is “out-of-phase” as it were, with the basic beat of the bar. You can hear it in “Riders On the Storm”, and especially in “Ship Of Fools”, right before Robbie comes in with his guitar break. ---
**Author:** ![absoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@absoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/absoul)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138/40 "2001-10-25T04:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by absoul \* > > \*\*“The men don’t know, but the little girls understand.” \*\* > > Actually, that was a Willie Dixon lyric. \*\* Oh yeah, I realize its Wille D. It just fits so well. 😃 I’ll let Knighted Vorpal Sword eat all the pork and beans cuz… I eat more chicken any man seen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-but-the-doors-were-no-more-than-average-at-best/89138.md?page=3)