# "Sorry for the Way Things Are in China" -- what is John Denver talking about? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 12, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678 "2005-11-12T04:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/1 "2005-11-12T04:34:46Z")
This is the refrain for the song “I’m Sorry” by John Denver: _I’m sorry for the way things are in China I’m sorry things ain’t what they used to be But more than anything else I’m sorry for myself 'Cause you’re not here with me_ The rest of the lyrics can be found [here](http://www.lyricsdownload.com/john-denver-i-m-sorry-lyrics.html). The first line of that refrain has always puzzled me. There is no other obvious mention of China in the rest of the song; it is, to all appearances, a pretty standard song about a guy who was dumped and misses his girlfriend. So why is he sorry about the way things are in China? Did the girlfriend move to China? (But if so, why is he sorry about the way things are there?) Is it a sarcastic remark about the poor situation in China at the time? Was there something relevant going on in China when the song was written (surely he’s not talking about the Cultural Revolution!)? I know it’s trivial and that we can’t expect complete logic from all John Denver lyrics, but it’s a prominent line in one of his better known songs, and it’s so out of left field that it just bugs me. Any reasonable theories? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/2 "2005-11-12T05:14:45Z")
At the time, China was (rightly or wrongly) pretty much synonymous with poverty. Mothers would guilt picky-eating kids into cleaning their plates by uttering the stock phrase “Think of all the starving children in China.” It was something we were expected to feel vaguely guilty about, and an easy segue from the general to the particular. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/3 "2005-11-12T05:32:57Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > At the time, China was (rightly or wrongly) pretty much synonymous with poverty. Mothers would guilt picky-eating kids into cleaning their plates by uttering the stock phrase “Think of all the starving children in China.” > > It was something we were expected to feel vaguely guilty about, and an easy segue from the general to the particular. I kinda figured it was something along those lines, but (and maybe this is just because I grew up in the cynical, oh-so-ironic '90s) the only reading of that meaning that made sense to me was if it was said in a snarky, sarcastic way as in: “Pfft; sorry your dad died, but I’ve got my own problems – _Friends_ just got cancelled.” But that didn’t fit the tone of the song, so I figured that it had to be something more specific that I was missing. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/4 "2005-11-12T06:20:22Z")
Wait a minute – you grew up _in the last decade_ and yet you’re curious about John Denver lyrics? Yet more compelling evidence that young Dopers are fundamentally unlike _other_ young people. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/5 "2005-11-12T06:27:50Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Wait a minute – you grew up _in the last decade_ and yet you’re curious about John Denver lyrics? > > Yet more compelling evidence that young Dopers are fundamentally unlike _other_ young people. 😃 I can quote Irving Berlin lyrics as a party trick to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/6 "2005-11-12T07:31:17Z")
John Denver was about as blessedly unsnarky as they come. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/7 "2005-11-12T07:35:58Z")
I used to know the words to “Surgens Jesus” and one of the 10[sup]9[/sup] versions of “Ave Maria” but I’ve forgotten most of them now. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/8 "2005-11-12T08:57:34Z")
I can chant _The Descent of Inanna_ in the original Sumerian. Just kidding. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/9 "2005-11-12T10:34:39Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > John Denver was about as blessedly unsnarky as they come. I just checked the lyrics. The context is the singer is wallowing in self-pity. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/10 "2005-11-12T18:06:31Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > At the time, China was (rightly or wrongly) pretty much synonymous with poverty. The song was released in 1975, at which point Mao’s Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution was still ongoing. Many chinese had more than poverty to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/11 "2005-11-12T22:31:01Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > I can quote Irving Berlin lyrics as a party trick to boot. Really? You know, “Rodgers” is a somewhat unusual spelling of an otherwise common last name. But there was at least one pretty famous and talented guy who had it, and he was quite familiar with Irving’s lyrics too. Any relation? ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/12 "2005-11-13T03:24:56Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > John Denver was about as blessedly unsnarky as they come. I thought so, too, until a friend directed me to his [Rhymes & Reasons](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009I7O3O/qid=1131852077/sr=2-3/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_3/102-2841920-0059309?v=glance&s=music) album. It features “The Ballad of Spiro Agnew” and “The Ballad of Richard Nixon.” At the risk of offending them mods, here’s the ENTIRE LYRIC to “The Ballad of Spiro Agnew”: “I’ll sing you a song of Spiro Agnew and all the things he’s done.” The rest is silence. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/13 "2005-11-13T04:12:59Z")
> [@stuyguy](#): > > Really? > > You know, “Rodgers” is a somewhat unusual spelling of an otherwise common last name. But there was at least one pretty famous and talented guy who had it, and he was quite familiar with Irving’s lyrics too. Any relation? Ha, you caught me! No relation, unfortunately; just a fan who happened to be listening to some of his music when trying to come up with a handle. ---
**Author:** ![smarcelli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@smarcelli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smarcelli)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/14 "2014-10-16T19:13:26Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > The first line of that refrain has always puzzled me. There is no other obvious mention of China in the rest of the song; it is, to all appearances, a pretty standard song about a guy who was dumped and misses his girlfriend. > > So why is he sorry about the way things are in China? Did the girlfriend move to China? This can be a logical suspect: his girl let him down and came back to a work as an US government interpreter (for example) in China. Sometimes he receives her mails in which she told him how are the way things in China… Very simple, for me. Ciao Stefano (a strong fan of John Denver since the 90’s, among the very few ones in Italy) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/15 "2014-10-16T19:50:55Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Was there something relevant going on in China when the song was written (surely he’s not talking about the Cultural Revolution!)? Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/16 "2014-10-16T19:51:49Z")
This is the weirdest zombie-bump ever. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/17 "2014-10-16T20:03:24Z")
**Moderator Action** Moving thread from General Questions to Cafe Society. Also, zombie alert. This thread is from 2005. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/18 "2014-10-16T20:24:44Z")
For those who are surprised that Denver had songs about Nixon and Agnew, remember that in the Sixties, he was a member of the Chad Mitchell Trio, a folk act dedicated in large part to political satire. By the late Sixties, the whole folk music/coffee house/hootenanny scene ahd larely disappeared, the Chad Mitchell Trio broke up, and John had to make it on his own with a different sound and a different approach. “I’m Sorry” is, in a sense, Part 2 of “Annie’s Song.” That is, Denver’s wife Annie had left him due to his infidelities. “Annie’s Song” was his way of begging her to come back to him. Well, it worked… but ultimately the marriage still didn’t work out. “I’m Sorry” is John telling Annie he was sorry for all his screw-ups (and all his screwing around) as she was headed out the door. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/19 "2014-10-16T21:27:48Z")
> [@pesch](#): > > I thought so, too, until a friend directed me to his [Rhymes & Reasons](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009I7O3O/qid=1131852077/sr=2-3/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_3/102-2841920-0059309?v=glance&s=music) album. It features “The Ballad of Spiro Agnew” and “The Ballad of Richard Nixon.” > > At the risk of offending them mods, here’s the ENTIRE LYRIC to “The Ballad of Spiro Agnew”: > > “I’ll sing you a song of Spiro Agnew and all the things he’s done.” > > The rest is silence. “The Ballad of Richard Nixon” is even shorter. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678/20 "2014-10-16T21:40:30Z")
One possible interpretation is he’s making insincere apologies in the first chorus. He’s saying he’s “sorry” but he’s doing it in for things which he feels aren’t his fault. Obviously whatever is happening in China may be bad but it’s not the singer’s fault. And the same is true about things not being the way they used to be. His final apology is the singer saying he’s sorry his girlfriend left him - that may be sincere but it’s still not talking any responsibility. He sings a little more and then figures out he needs to accept that he was wrong and that’s why she left. Then he begins to admit his mistakes and apologize for things he actually did: _I’m sorry for all the lies I told you/for the things I didn’t say/if I took some things for granted/for the chains I put on you_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-for-the-way-things-are-in-china-what-is-john-denver-talking-about/330678.md?page=2)