# "Sorry I didn't call you on your birthday, but it was the Sabbath." WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 28, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935 "2004-12-28T15:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/21 "2004-12-28T21:38:51Z")
What about Exodus 20:10? From the KJV: > [@](#): > > But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, **nor thy stranger that is within thy gates** : (bolding added) ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/22 "2004-12-28T21:50:20Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > This reminds me of my other brother who went through an “I don’t eat pork” phase for a while when he was dating a Seventh Day Adventist. This didn’t stop him from eating pizza with pepperoni and sausage when she wasn’t around, though. Hypocrisy pisses me off, and I hate it when people put on a different persona to impress or to avoid offending people. So my brother gets pitted for that. Has it occurred to you that not eating pork around someone whose religion or belief system forbids it might just be good manners? My brother had friends who were uber-vegetarians, so he didn’t eat meat when he was around them. It wasn’t hypocrisy, it was respect for someone else’s views. It didn’t stop him from eating a burger beforehand. No skin off his nose, and he was the better person for it for respecting someone else’s view, instead of childishly having to be “right.” His friends knew he was a meat-eater, BTW, but they appreciated him respecting their views when he was with them. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/23 "2004-12-28T21:52:01Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > And any religion that doesn’t family call you on your birthday is worthless. he apparently **could have** _prior_ to “sundown”. in any event, I’ve never understood this whole worshiping one’s birth anniversary thing. It’s a day. If friends want to tell me ‘happy b’day’ on that day, give me a gift, whatever, great, but I don’t have any issue w/folks opting out, being late, forgetting, whatever. I do give gifts, cards etc to near and dear ones who celebrate theirs, but I don’t get bent if someone forgets mine. (that included my son). ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/24 "2004-12-28T22:03:34Z")
IANAJ, but I have read of jews using a ‘shabbes goy’ to do the things they are not permitted to do, like lighting furnaces, etc. Perhaps this is another of those things that only the less strict sects do? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/25 "2004-12-28T22:05:09Z")
I’d pit her and lose her too. Is she Amish? There’s a phone in the barn–go ahead, live dangerously and make that call… This seems an arbitrary rule, intended to maximally inconvenience everyone. What if said brother was choking? Does the rule include a ban on 911 calls? What about incoming ones–perhaps telling of a death in the family or maybe even Ed McMahon telling of untold riches (oh, wait, he knocks on the door–do they sanction door knocking in the dark?). However, who am I to stand in anyone’s way of being “Godly”. IMO, he probably forgot and used this as an excuse (?). The luggage thing–having been a victim of luggage Nazi’s (who ticketed me, 8 months pregnant b/c I left my vehicle to pee–while waiting for my Mom who didn’t even offer to pay for the damned thing, but that’s another thread…). I feel for ya. And they are not nice about their own mistakes–the airlines, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/26 "2004-12-28T22:10:42Z")
Maybe your brother just forgot? Maybe he got distracted or just plain forgot and then when he saw how much it meant to you he latched onto the “she wouldn’t let me” as a way of weaseling out of responsibility for his forgetfulness? This seems a simpler explanation than some wacky religious fervor on the part of the hostess. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/27 "2004-12-28T22:45:24Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Is one not permited to ask this of Bob on the day of the Sabbath or in preparation of the Sabbath? No, I can’t ask Bob on Friday morning to come cook a meal for me on Saturday morning. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, should one have a maid or even an entire staff of servants who are not Jewish, would/could they be instructed by the employer to prepare meals, operate various household appliances, etc… on the Sabbath while the employer remains in observance? Also a no-no. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/28 "2004-12-28T22:48:51Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Two things: > > 1. While you are not required to stop him from doing so, would you consider it rude for him to do so? I don’t know if I’d consider it rude. I guess (and this is my personal opinion), it depends on what the action is: I wouldn’t allow Bob to turn on the TV since having it on would run counter to the spirit of _shabbos_. OTOH, I wouldn’t mind if he tore toilet paper in private when he went to the bathroom. And before anyone asks – yes, tearing is one of the categories of forbidden labor. We use pre-cut tissue paper (such as Kleenex and the like) > [@](#): > > 1. This is probably way too nitty-gritty, but suppose he’s making himself a sandwich on the Sabbath and he asks you if you want one, too. Are you allowed to accept his offer to make you a sandwich? Well, since the making of a sandwich is permitted (provided one does not heat up any of the ingredients) it shouldn’t be a problem. If, OTOH, he offers to cook some eggs for me, I would have to turn him down. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/29 "2004-12-28T22:50:02Z")
> [@Loopus](#): > > What about Exodus 20:10? The word used, _ger’cha_ does not refer to a non-Jew. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/30 "2004-12-28T23:25:46Z")
He _did_ call you. Why not just take his explanation at face value and figure he probably had his reasons. I’ve dated a Seventh Day Adventist that was pretty serious about the Sabbath. He would not work on the Sabbath (although it was not as strict as Orthodox Judaism- he would cook and stuff) and he wouldn’t do stuff that made or encouraged other people to work- like going to the store. We had a lot of rent-a-movie Friday dates and Saturdays in the park. He was okay with phone calls, but if he wasn’t, I’d probably refrain out of politness. It’s just not cool to do something that someone is religiously restricted from doing right in front of their face. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/31 "2004-12-28T23:32:43Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > The word used, _ger’cha_ does not refer to a non-Jew. > > Zev Steinhardt Thanks. I always wondered about that passage, as it seemed overly strict. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/32 "2004-12-28T23:33:08Z")
I’ve heard of Orthodox Jews asking people walking by to come and turn out their lights for them-what about that? Whoever brought up calling 911-if there’s an emergency, then yes, by all means the Orthodox will forgo the rules! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/33 "2004-12-28T23:37:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Whoever brought up calling 911-if there’s an emergency, then yes, by all means the Orthodox will forgo the rules! A little more on this…by my understanding, all of the behavioral, dietary, and sabbatical laws given to the Jews are considered temporarily disposable in order to save a life. Sabbath rest may be broken if someone is dying. Unclean animals may be eaten if doing so will save someone from dying. If I’m wrong, I ask to be corrected, but that’s my take from reading the postings of several of our Orthodox Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/34 "2004-12-28T23:49:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I’ve heard of Orthodox Jews asking people walking by to come and turn out their lights for them-what about that? If that is done, then it is wrong. A Jew cannot ask a non-Jew to do something for him that he himself is forbidden to do. However, one can allow a non-Jew to do something _on their own_ in your house. So, for example, if one’s lights go out, one can invite a non-Jew into his house hoping that the non-Jew will turn the lights on to see. But one cannot outright ask. > [@](#): > > Whoever brought up calling 911-if there’s an emergency, then yes, by all means the Orthodox will forgo the rules! In short, all the commandments are waived in life-or-death situations with three exceptions: (1) Murder – if someone says to you “Kill Bob or I’ll kill you,” you cannot kill Bob. (You can, however, kill the one threatening you if there is no other way to stop him). (2) Forbidden sexual unions – if someone says to you “Sleep with Bob’s wife or I’ll kill you,” then you cannot sleep with Bob’s wife. (3) Idolatry – If someone says to you “Bow down to Bob’s god or I’ll kill you,” you cannot bow down to Bob’s god. Short of that, however, one can (and in fact MUST) violate any commandment to save a life. Thus if one must eat non-kosher to save his life, he must do so. If one must drive to the hospital or call 911 on _shabbos_ then he must do so. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![biddee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@biddee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biddee)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/35 "2004-12-28T23:58:55Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Short of that, however, one can (and in fact MUST) violate any commandment to save a life. Thus if one must eat non-kosher to save his life, he must do so. If one must drive to the hospital or call 911 on _shabbos_ then he must do so. > Zev Steinhardt What if it’s something that’s not life threatening, but that could become life threatening…for example if you stand on a rusty nail. That’s not going to kill you immediately, but if you wait to get a tetanus shot, you might get tetanus and die. Would you be able to break _shabbos_ in a situation like that? ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/36 "2004-12-29T00:06:32Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > This reminds me of my other brother who went through an “I don’t eat pork” phase for a while when he was dating a Seventh Day Adventist. This didn’t stop him from eating pizza with pepperoni and sausage when she wasn’t around, though. Hypocrisy pisses me off, and I hate it when people put on a different persona to impress or to avoid offending people. I am a Muslim. A very very liberal Muslim, but a Muslim nonetheless. Hence, I will not eat pork. My boyfriend is not a Muslim, in fact he’s agnostic. Since we started going out with each other, he has _never_ eaten pork in front of me, or if he were going to be meeting me in a couple of hours. I **never** asked him to do that. He decided, of his own free will and volition, that he would not eat pork when around me to respect my beliefs. He’s not doing it to impress me, nor is he doing it in order to avoid offending me. He’s doing it because he respects me as a person, and part of respecting me as a person is respecting my beliefs. Where’s the hypocrisy in that? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/37 "2004-12-29T00:15:54Z")
> [@chukhung](#): > > [Just the reverse](http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0648516.html), in some cases… I was one of these once…Never knew quite what to think of that. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/38 "2004-12-29T00:27:47Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > What if it’s something that’s not life threatening, but that could become life threatening…for example if you stand on a rusty nail. That’s not going to kill you immediately, but if you wait to get a tetanus shot, you might get tetanus and die. Would you be able to break _shabbos_ in a situation like that? This is really getting beyond the scope of this thread. I will summarize for you: There are differing degrees of illnesses (life-threatening, non-life-threatening but still dangerous, not-life-threatening-and-not-so-dangerous, etc.) and there are different levels of prohibitions (Biblical and rabbinical). Depending on the degree of illness and the degree of prohibition involved, one may break certain laws of _shabbos_, or ask a non-Jew to violate them for him. If you need more in-depth information than that, please consult your local rabbi. 🙂 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/39 "2004-12-29T00:41:14Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > If that is done, then it is wrong. A Jew cannot ask a non-Jew to do something for him that he himself is forbidden to do. However, one can allow a non-Jew to do something _on their own_ in your house. So, for example, if one’s lights go out, one can invite a non-Jew into his house hoping that the non-Jew will turn the lights on to see. But one cannot outright ask. Perhaps this is better left for an “Ask the Jewish guy” thread - and this is something I wouldn’t have known to ask but for your comment - but let us suppose: Zev: “I need the lights on so I can see where I put my contacts. I’ll invite **punha** over and see if he turns on the lights.” :: punha comes over :: Pun: _after 30 minutes of sitting in the dark_ “You know, I have to say … almost anywhere else, I’d either expect the lights to be on or I’d just turn them on myself. However, I know you’re Jewish and you don’t do work on Saturdays, so I’ll respect your beliefs and not turn on the lights myself. After all, I might forget to turn them off when I leave, and then you’d be out of luck until the sun went down.” What would be appropriate/inappropriate ways for that scenario to continue? ---
**Author:** ![35340](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/8baadc/32.png) [@35340](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/35340)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935/40 "2004-12-29T01:52:35Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > Perhaps this is better left for an “Ask the Jewish guy” thread - and this is something I wouldn’t have known to ask but for your comment - but let us suppose: > > Zev: “I need the lights on so I can see where I put my contacts. I’ll invite **punha** over and see if he turns on the lights.” > > :: punha comes over :: > > Pun: _after 30 minutes of sitting in the dark_ “You know, I have to say … almost anywhere else, I’d either expect the lights to be on or I’d just turn them on myself. However, I know you’re Jewish and you don’t do work on Saturdays, so I’ll respect your beliefs and not turn on the lights myself. After all, I might forget to turn them off when I leave, and then you’d be out of luck until the sun went down.” > > What would be appropriate/inappropriate ways for that scenario to continue? Feel around for glasses? As I understand it, lights can be left on, and some people have lights on timers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-i-didnt-call-you-on-your-birthday-but-it-was-the-sabbath-wtf/281935.md?page=3)