# Sorry, maybe I'm naive, but I don't view all men as potential rapists or predators. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2017, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159 "2017-11-20T05:00:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/101 "2017-11-21T20:01:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can we at least agree that every person in the world is a potential Hitler? Except for Susan Olsen. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/102 "2017-11-21T20:04:55Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So you don’t think that every man is a potential rapist? I think you are foolish to get so offended because someone has uttered that statement. What power does this person have over you that you are so affected by their words? I stand by everything I’ve written in this thread so far, so if you want to know how I feel, you can always re-read. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/103 "2017-11-21T20:06:59Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I think you are foolish to get so offended because someone has uttered that statement. What power does this person have over you that you are so affected by their words? > > I stand by everything I’ve written in this thread so far, so if you want to know how I feel, you can always re-read. So, is that a yes or a no? Do you consider all men to be potential rapists? Simple question with a simple answer - Yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/104 "2017-11-21T20:12:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So, is that a yes or a no? > > Do you consider all men to be potential rapists? Simple question with a simple answer - Yes or no. Why are you more offended by that phrase than by the horrible things women have to deal with every day from these kinds of men? Why do you care so much about my opinion of that phrase? Since I started responding in this thread my main point is that you are taking this too personally and you are focusing only on that phrase at the expense of being able to look objectively at the entire issue, and all you can reply with is restating the exact same question. You are proving my point with every response right now. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/105 "2017-11-21T20:12:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What makes you think the woman giving you a compliment on the bus isn’t hitting on you? I’ve actually been “hit on” by a few women in my life. It’s just as objectionable as when men do it. The difference is, I don’t fear being physically overpowered and raped by another woman nearly as frequently as a I fear it from men, because I’m average height for a woman and stronger than average, but I’m significantly smaller than most men and not as strong. I don’t have a problem talking to or chatting with strangers - there’s a definite difference between that and a stranger hitting on me. It’s not just the words, it’s also tone and body language. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/106 "2017-11-21T20:14:11Z")
And sorry I don’t think this topic can be boiled down to a simple yes or no answer, and if you think it can, then you really haven’t been reading and taking in what everyone is saying. So I won’t be giving you the satisfaction of accepting the discussion on your narrow terms so that you can think that you won something. This is a bigger issue than who gets more internet points. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/107 "2017-11-21T20:27:24Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > And sorry I don’t think this topic can be boiled down to a simple yes or no answer, and if you think it can, then you really haven’t been reading and taking in what everyone is saying. > > So I won’t be giving you the satisfaction of accepting the discussion on your narrow terms so that you can think that you won something. This is a bigger issue than who gets more internet points. Yeah, that’s what I thought. Too scared to post your own opinion clearly and succinctly. I’m not surprised. And if you think hearing a definite opinion from an anonymous message board poster is my idea of “winning” anything, then you have even bigger issues. Have a good Thanksgiving though! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/108 "2017-11-21T20:30:31Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Good thing nobody is doing that. What I am doing is objecting to a generalization that when applied to anyone else would be characterized as racism or bigotry. But applying it to men is apparently ok. You do seem to not understand why a woman has more reason to be afraid of a man than a man has to be afraid of a woman. > [@](#): > > Your story also disgusted me. Not you, but the attitudes of the other drivers ☹ It disgusted me too when I learned about it. Kinda made me feel bad about my own actions, even, as I was taking advantage of their fear of the other men in order to get them to do what I wanted them to do. Had I known the “price” then I probably would not have expected favors myself, even though the favors I asked of them were work related, not sex related. > [@Slash1972](#): > > So you don’t think that every man is a potential rapist? I think that every human is a potential asshole who may be willing to use the powers at their disposal to harm others and gratify themself. All humans should be treated with some level of suspicion, as any unknown human may turn out to be an abuser. Men are also usually physically stronger than women, as well as often times in a greater position of power. This means that a man who decides to be an asshole is far more dangerous than a woman who decides to be an asshole. This is just the reality of the situation. It doesn’t work with racism, because a black man who decides to be an asshole is not far more dangerous than a white guy that is, and a muslim that decides to be an ass is not going to be any more dangerous either. The race or religion of a person does not determine how much harm that can be done if the person in question decides to cause harm. I’m just as likely to win a fight against a random black guy, a random muslim, or a random white guy. Gender, on the other hand, does create a disparity. A woman is far less likely to win a fight against a man. The differences in gender do introduce a power disparity that is not present in ethnic differences. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/109 "2017-11-21T20:36:45Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You do seem to not understand why a woman has more reason to be afraid of a man than a man has to be afraid of a woman I do understand that of course. But that wasn’t the subject of the OP, nor anything having to do with the phrase that I object to - “All men are potential rapists” > [@](#): > > It disgusted me too when I learned about it. Kinda made me feel bad about my own actions, even, as I was taking advantage of their fear of the other men in order to get them to do what I wanted them to do. Had I known the “price” then I probably would not have expected favors myself, even though the favors I asked of them were work related, not sex related This is why I don’t do “favors” at work. I do my job. > [@](#): > > Gender, on the other hand, does create a disparity. A woman is far less likely to win a fight against a man. The differences in gender do introduce a power disparity that is not present in ethnic differences. So it’s okay for me to fear anyone that looks bigger and stronger than me on the subway, simply because they are bigger and stronger? Or do they actually have to DO something before I should start fearing them? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/110 "2017-11-21T20:40:48Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Most women who are not suffering from PTSD are aware that the large majority of men are not rapists. But, most women also know that a large percentage of men they encounter are capable of, first, giving them unwanted sexual attention, and second, have little to no capacity to empathize with what that might be like for women. > > That is not rape, but it can get damned wearisome and in the right circumstances, very unpleasant, ranging to dangerous. > > Lots of men who are not rapists would cop a feel, or look up a woman’s skirt, or comment on her looks inappropriately. Lots of men who are not rapists would ask a subordinate to go with them to a bar after work. And on and on. > > I just read a story on the subject in which groups of men and women were shown videos of inappropriate behavior by men in the workplace. The women ranked these transgressions as very serious and alarming, the men couldn’t see much wrong with it. > > This is not surprising at all, to any woman who reads the Dope, anyway. > > I don’t think all men or even all that many men are actual rapists. But that’s not the fundamental problem. Even most of them with PSTD don’t think all men are rapist. But YES! THIS. As well as I don’t look at all men and think “oh, God, here comes the harassment my direction” - but I don’t assume that all men have treated every woman they’ve ever met in their life with respect and 100% appropriate behavior. Let’s face it, most of them have screwed it up by the time they leave high school - and this includes my son and my husband and every one of my male friends - it isn’t an unforgivable offense - but that doesn’t mean they’ve always behaved appropriately to me or other women. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/111 "2017-11-21T20:49:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So it’s okay for me to fear anyone that looks bigger and stronger than me on the subway, simply because they are bigger and stronger? Or do they actually have to DO something before I should start fearing them? I think it’s wise to asses the body language and behavior of any stranger for danger signals, and even more so when they’re bigger and stronger than you are. All humans have the \*potential \*to be vicious, poo-flinging, nasty apes. Fortunately, most of us have learned to behave better than that, but not all of us. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/112 "2017-11-21T20:49:57Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I do understand that of course. But that wasn’t the subject of the OP, nor anything having to do with the phrase that I object to - “All men are potential rapists” All humans a potential assholes. Rape is an asshoolish thing to do. All humans are potential rapists. Men who are rapists are far more dangerous than women who are rapists. > [@](#): > > This is why I don’t do “favors” at work. I do my job. The favor was for them to do their job, really. But get teens and early 20’s people, and they aren’t really all the responsible. Manager can tell them to run food out to tables all day, and gets ignored, their ride asks, and the food goes out. > [@](#): > > So it’s okay for me to fear anyone that looks bigger and stronger than me on the subway, simply because they are bigger and stronger? Yes, of course it’s okay for you to fear something that is potentially dangerous, why would you argue otherwise? You shouldn’t write policies or laws based on that fear, but keeping yourself out of a dangerous situation is what the entire point of fear is. And, as has been pointed out, it is also situational. A group of body builders gets on the subway at the other end of the car, and there are dozens of other people on the car, then there probably is not much to fear there. If it is just you, and a bunch of big guys come into the car and stand in a circle around you, you may need to consider the situation. Same with women and men, they are not running from every man they see, but they are certainly assessing the situation, with the idea that nearly any man can easily overpower them physically, and so it is in their interests to avoid that possibility. > [@](#): > > Or do they actually have to DO something before I should start fearing them? At the point that they actually do something, then it is already too late to prevent them from doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/113 "2017-11-21T20:52:34Z")
The vast majority of men (and women) are not rapists or sexual predators, and I say that as someone that has managed to cross paths with a few hard core offenders. We have all been guilty of maybe not behaving 100% appropriately toward each other. We hopefully learn and adapt our behaviour when it becomes known to us that we offended (best case) or injured (worst case) someone. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/114 "2017-11-21T21:05:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, that’s what I thought. Too scared to post your own opinion clearly and succinctly. I’m not surprised. > > And if you think hearing a definite opinion from an anonymous message board poster is my idea of “winning” anything, then you have even bigger issues. > > Have a good Thanksgiving though! Just as I figured, still not actually reading what others are saying for comprehension, and just trying to somehow figure out some way that you can “win” the conversation by trying to boil the entire debate down to one yes or no question that you think you can’t lose with. Completely transparent, and no I won’t participate in that. It’s beneath what this topic is all about. If you have anything constructive to say regarding what I’ve posted I’ll be glad to listen, but I’m not going to play your silly game. I’m interested in an intellectual back an forth, not… whatever it is you’re doing. Also, too scared? Really? What is this, recess during the 3rd grade? I feel that all of my opinions in this thread have been posted clearly and succinctly, at least succinctly enough in my estimation, and I stand by every word I’ve written. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/115 "2017-11-21T21:34:33Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I think it’s wise to asses the body language and behavior of any stranger for danger signals, and even more so when they’re bigger and stronger than you are Of course. But “assessing body language and behavior” is not inherent in the statement “All men are potential rapists” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/116 "2017-11-21T21:37:03Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I feel that all of my opinions in this thread have been posted clearly and succinctly, at least succinctly enough in my estimation, and I stand by every word I’ve written. Of course you would. Since you don’t actually state whether or not you think “All men are potential rapists” I don’t think that “All men are potential rapists” and I have no qualms about stating it. You, however, seem caught up in some strange game that only you are playing where people “win” or “lose” based on wanting to know another person’s opinion. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/117 "2017-11-21T21:39:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > All humans are potential rapists Actually, I changed my mind. I don’t agree with this. “Many people may be potential rapists” is something that I would agree with. > [@](#): > > Men who are rapists are far more dangerous than women who are rapists And I can agree with this. > [@](#): > > At the point that they actually do something, then it is already too late to prevent them from doing it. This can be said about a lot of things, all but one of which would be considered racist or bigoted. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/118 "2017-11-21T21:48:38Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Just as I figured, still not actually reading what others are saying for comprehension, and just trying to somehow figure out some way that you can “win” the conversation To be clear, I am not trying to “win”, nor is this a debate. I’m not debating with you whether or not the the phrase “All men are potential rapists” is accurate or not. I simply want to know what you think about that statement. And whether you answer, “Yes, I think all men are potential rapists” or “No, I don’t think all men are potential rapists”, my reply to you would be exactly the same “Thanks for answering” But continuing winning, or whatever you are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/119 "2017-11-21T22:24:01Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Of course you would. Since you don’t actually state whether or not you think “All men are potential rapists” > > I don’t think that “All men are potential rapists” and I have no qualms about stating it. > > You, however, seem caught up in some strange game that only you are playing where people “win” or “lose” based on wanting to know another person’s opinion. Good luck with that. I am a man. I know that I am not capable of raping anyone, therefore I know for a fact that I’m not a potential rapist. I cannot speak for every other man, but I would have to imagine that there are many men who are similarly incapable of raping anyone. I don’t recall using the phrase, or defending anyone that used it. I only remarked that you are way too concerned about some random internet stranger saying it and that you are focusing so much on that phrase that it is blinding you to the rest of the issue. And here you are… once again asking me about that phrase… As for the game thing, I’m talking about the Bender from The Breakfast Club impression you’ve been doing with the “are all men potential rapists”, “yes or no question”, ‘just answer the question Claire’ type of repeated posts. You have been so adamant and single-minded with it that I figured the reason why is that you were trying to prove something or attempt to establish message board dominance kind of thing. It was oddly aggressive for just being about curiosity of my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159/120 "2017-11-22T18:43:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Actually, I changed my mind. I don’t agree with this. “Many people may be potential rapists” is something that I would agree with. It depends on what perspective you are coming from. I am not a potential rapist, short of some sort of massive head trauma that fundamentally alters my personality, but there is no way for anyone else to know that. There is no way to tell from the way that I get on the bus, or glance at you at an intersection, that I do not wish to gratify my own personal desires at the expense of harm to you. That means, to anyone who doesn’t know me enough to trust me, that I am a potential danger. I am not just a potential rapist, I am also a potential mugger, a potential assaulter, and a potential murderer for the same reasons. From that perspective, all people are potential dangers, whether they be sexual in nature, or that they be physical but non-sexual, or even if they are just selling amway, there are people out there that to interact with is to lower your quality of life. And there is no way of knowing that until it is too late. > [@](#): > > And I can agree with this. So you do understand why it is reasonable for a woman to have more fear of a man than a man should have of another man of a differing ethnicity or religion? > [@](#): > > This can be said about a lot of things, all but one of which would be considered racist or bigoted. Do you not avoid dangerous situations because you are afraid that someone may see you avoiding that situation, and consider you to be discriminatory for your action? If you are walking down the street, and you see 3 men that are large enough that they could commit great harm to your body with very little effective resistance to be offered by yourself, would you not take a bit of note of them? See what kind of body language, what kind of facial expressions they are sporting. What kind of interest they are taking in you? If you note that they are all taking an hostile interest in you as you approach, will you continue forward until you are among and amongst them? To stop and consider the situation would be to be not waiting for them to do something before you acknowledge the potential danger of the situation, but that seems a bit on the foolhardy side. When women say “all men are potential rapists”, I do not take it personally. I don’t think that they are actually accusing me of being a rapist, or even disparaging that I could be. I do, however, see that from their perspective, that any man that they are alone with is able to overpower and commit whatever acts upon them as he wishes, and that’s gotta be a bit terrifying. I can understand an overabundance of caution when the consequences of a mistake in their evaluation of the danger ends very badly for them. If they misjudge you, and think that you are a rapist when you are not, then they won’t return your smile on the subway. This doesn’t really hurt you. If they misjudge you the wrong way, and assume you are not a rapist when you actually are, then they get assaulted and raped or worse. This actually does harm them. It may be a double standard, but is only a double standard because it one side has a far greater chance of being harmed than the other, so the double standard makes perfect pragmatic sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-maybe-im-naive-but-i-dont-view-all-men-as-potential-rapists-or-predators/802159.md?page=7)