# "Sorry, my suspension of disbelief doesn't stretch that far." (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603 "2006-06-21T18:37:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/121 "2006-06-22T19:05:32Z")
[QUOTE=JThunder] I have a hard time swallowing this one scene from _West Side Story_. I’m talking about the segment where the male lead is running down the streets of east New York, yelling “Maria! Maria!”… … and only one woman pokes her head out of her window. [/QUOTE] Same general area, 1999: a huge lizard is stomping down the street… …and doesn’t set off any car alarms. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/122 "2006-06-22T19:06:46Z")
Darn, I was going to check the year before I submit. Make that '98. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/123 "2006-06-22T19:18:29Z")
I somehow find it far easier to suspend disbelief for western superhero movies like Spiderman or X-men than eastern martial arts like Crouching Tiger Hidden Wires, go figure. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/124 "2006-06-22T19:22:42Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] Frankly, it’s a major East Coast/West Coast dichotomy, written by people who’ve never driven, nor really looked at a map of, the distance between airports in the DC area. I might be willing to buy that kind of scenario with, say Sacramento (Assuming I could buy the blizzard…), but not anything around DC. [/QUOTE] Sorry, but Sactown ain’t gonna help with this one. It has an international airport, then within city limits you have McClellan AFB, Mather AFB (which had SAC for years, and the runways accomodate B-52s), Aerojet, several private airports and long sections of I-80 and I-50 which are four lanes wide and don’t have so much as a degree of curve to them for miles. Then you have Oakland International and SFO within a hundred miles, San Jose, Stockton, Fresno–all with good sized airstrips if not full on jet runways and all of it within about fifteen minutes air travel time. Now PORTLAND, on the other hand, would be a great candidate for this scenario. All you’ve got is Sea-Tac within 200 miles, the roads are narrow and curvy and the few Air Force installations are right next to the only airports. It could have been really scenic, too, having all the planes circling in an ice storm then crashing into the lava dome of Mt. St. Helens–that would be cool! ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/125 "2006-06-22T19:30:48Z")
[QUOTE=ululate] Not even close to the stupidity of “Minority Report”. Tom Cruise goes from respected cop to wanted fugitive? Okay, fine, he’s a man on the run, the hunter has become the hunted, he’s holed up in a safe house, and he eventually tries to get back in to police headquarters with hopes that he’ll pass the retinal scan. Which he does. [/QUOTE] To me the main problem of the whole movie was the premise itself. I get the idea of preventing murders by using “pre-cogs”. What I don’t get, however, is what happens afterwards to the would-be murderers. I mean, the one legitimate arrest they show is clearly a spur-of-the-moment murder. If you gave the guy a day to think about what he almost did, he’d probably regret it and never do it again. So, what do you gain by freezing him forever? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/126 "2006-06-22T19:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] To me the main problem of the whole movie was the premise itself. I get the idea of preventing murders by using “pre-cogs”. What I don’t get, however, is what happens afterwards to the would-be murderers. I mean, the one legitimate arrest they show is clearly a spur-of-the-moment murder. If you gave the guy a day to think about what he almost did, he’d probably regret it and never do it again. So, what do you gain by freezing him forever? [/QUOTE] The unstinting support of the law & order at any cost crowd. Max von Sydnow’c character said that there had been exactly zero successful murders since pre-crime began, so clearly the certainty of being punished had completely deterred the premeditated murderers too. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/127 "2006-06-22T19:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=SmartAleq] Now PORTLAND, on the other hand, would be a great candidate for this scenario. All you’ve got is Sea-Tac within 200 miles, the roads are narrow and curvy and the few Air Force installations are right next to the only airports. It could have been really scenic, too, having all the planes circling in an ice storm then crashing into the lava dome of Mt. St. Helens–that would be cool! [/QUOTE] Not quite. Off the top of my head, McChord AFB in Tacoma, Boeing Field in Seattle, Paine Field in Everett, and Grant County Airport in Moses Lake, Washington (main runway is 13,500 feet long and 200 feet wide, it was an alternate landing site for the space shuttle). ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/128 "2006-06-22T19:54:27Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] The unstinting support of the law & order at any cost crowd. Max von Sydnow’c character said that there had been exactly zero successful murders since pre-crime began, so clearly the certainty of being punished had completely deterred the premeditated murderers too. [/QUOTE] Well, that’s part of the point isn’t it? They have an incredibly successful program (I mean, right from the start they have had 100% success). They don’t really need to have any kind of deterrence on top of it, unless they’re really lazy. Add to this the improbability of this 100% success rate. After all, the only murder prevention we are allowed to watch narrowly succeeds. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/129 "2006-06-22T20:05:49Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Well, that’s part of the point isn’t it? They have an incredibly successful program (I mean, right from the start they have had 100% success). They don’t really need to have any kind of deterrence on top of it, unless they’re really lazy. [/quote] No, because the success of the deterrence depends on the continuation of the program. And how is it lazy to keep working. (Not that I’m depending Pre-Crime; I’m with Colin Farrell’s character in thinking that it’s fundamentally unjust.) > [@](#): > > Add to this the improbability of this 100% success rate. After all, the only murder prevention we are allowed to watch narrowly succeeds. Yes, because there’s so little warning in impulse murders. What Pre-Crime has done is to completely discourage planned murders. If Arye Gross’ character–the husband at the beginning whom Pre-Crime captures–had discovered his wife’s infidelity in a less dramatic fashion and entertained thoughts of killing her and her lover by poison, say, or sabotaging their car–some way that is used in the real world, in other words–he’d probably think, “No, I can’t possibly get away with it because of Pre-Crime.” If he didn’t, if he decided to ride the whirlwind and continue with his murder preparations, then during the time he was plotting he’d have been caught. No, I can’t explain why Max Von Sydow’s character is able to conceal his intricate plot in this case. I didn’t say the story made sense. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/130 "2006-06-22T20:20:44Z")
But if detection is 100% effective there’s absolutely no need for harsh punishment. And certainly no need to freeze people forever without trial. What about a stay in a psychiatric hospital? As you say, the only possible murders in Minority Report are impulse murders. Say the penalty for murder is 1 year in a country club style prison. That’s not enough to deter someone who is determined to commit murder. So they decide to go through with it. Except pre-crime would detect the murder and arrest them before they could go through with it. Except the pre-murderer knows that they won’t be able to actually commit the murder, and so they decide not to even try. And so pre-crime doesn’t have to stop the murder. There’s absolutely no need for harsh punishment…heck ANY punishment…for pre-murder. The mere fact that you will be prevented from carrying out the murder is enough disinincentive for all premeditated murders. And for impulse murderers the punishment is irrelevant anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/131 "2006-06-22T20:49:06Z")
[QUOTE=Spatial Rift 47] peoples, none of whom have laws, crime, courts, police or jails. Greed is a cultural construct of our society, so there’s no reason why the fictional society in Star Trek should have to have it. [/quote] Let’s not romanticize the Native American. While the Lakaota might not have had a police force or jails you’d be mistaken to think they didn’t have a set of rules everyone was suppose to live by and methods to punish those who were anti-social. Also, the Lakota made it a habit of raiding other groups for horses and they weren’t necessarily motiviated primarily by their need for more horses. Likewise I remember seeing a movie in anthropology about a group of San who had a major conflict because one member of the group had more blankets then another. They accursed her of cheating on her husband and called her daughter a whore. I’m not saying these people are bad but let’s not view them with such rosey glasses. Marc ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/132 "2006-06-22T21:54:44Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] Not quite. Off the top of my head, McCord AFB in Tacoma, Boeing Field in Seattle, Paine Field in Everett, and Grant County Airport in Moses Lake, Washington (main runway is 13,500 feet long and 200 feet wide, it was an alternate landing site for the space shuttle). [/QUOTE] Odd you should mention Grant County Airport in the context of answering the question related to **Die Hard 2** since that’s where they shot the scene with the conspicuously out of place PNB pay phone. > [@](#): > > No, I can’t explain why Max Von Sydow’s character is able to conceal his intricate plot in this case. I didn’t say the story made sense. I haven’t seen **Minority Report** recently but wasn’t it due to the fact he mostly used third parties to murder people (something the Pre-Crime system didn’t account for)? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/133 "2006-06-22T22:06:05Z")
[QUOTE=NDP] Odd you should mention Grant County Airport in the context of answering the question related to **Die Hard 2** since that’s where they shot the scene with the conspicuously out of place PNB pay phone. [/QUOTE] I knew about the phone, but didn’t know it was shot at Moses Lake. Cool. Checking IMDB, there are 13 filming locations listed for _Die Hard 2_, not bad for a movie where all the action takes place at one airport. And don’t change my spelling. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/134 "2006-06-22T22:29:20Z")
[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank] we cheer when the puppygod makes it into the tunnel in L.A. [/QUOTE] May I please use that as a screen name? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/135 "2006-06-22T23:16:14Z")
I irrevocably ruin sci-fi for me and my friends. As a geek who knows quite a few random trivia about chemistry, physics, math, and technology, it irks me to know end the awful awful premeses some of the shows that people come up with. Although I guess expecting the creators of _Mega Man Battle Network_ to know how the real internet works is probably expecting too much. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/136 "2006-06-22T23:42:23Z")
[QUOTE=Spatial Rift 47] 5)Universal morality: Don’t forget that we only see a small and non-representative portion of the Federation population, namely those who fit into the Starfleet subculture. The rest may be radically different. [/quote] That’s unlikely. The average personality of SF officers may deviate from the overall population, but surely their attitudes reflect the population at large. You don’t expect the Enterprise crew chosen from the egalitarian society of 24C Earth to all just hapen to tilt to some sort of self-evident universal morality. > [@](#): > > However, the holodecks are used for just about anything you can think of. Many episodes in TNG feature Picard going for a horseback ride or participating in a Dixon Hill holonovel. Think of that as going to the park/movies. Most of the 1,000+ poeple on the Enterprise won’t/can’t go to one of the ?4-5? holodecks everyday. What’s the entertainment when one is loafing around on the couch after-shift? It’s highly improbable that television, radio have been phased out. > [@](#): > > 1. The Prime Directive: Really, I think it’s not so much about presumptuously preserving an alien culture as it is not being responsible for any changes. They figure, whatever happens to them is their problem, unless it was caused by us. The PD only applies to sub-Warp cultures, otherwise ‘First contact’ would never happen, so liability concerns aren’t the reason. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/137 "2006-06-23T00:19:01Z")
[QUOTE=Promethea] . . . I am keen to see more exciting episodes of Johnny MacGuffin And His Fuckup Squad. [/QUOTE] Actually, I now regret not naming it **_Ranger_ Johnny MacGuffin And His Fuckup Squad**. A bit more action-flavored, doncha’ think? ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/138 "2006-06-23T01:14:02Z")
[QUOTE=NDP] I haven’t seen **Minority Report** recently but wasn’t it due to the fact he mostly used third parties to murder people (something the Pre-Crime system didn’t account for)? [/QUOTE] I think it was something like that–he would see how the murders were to be played out, so then he would perform the murders in the same fashion–Pre-crime picked up the pre-cognition of the crime as he committed it, but dismissed it as just the after-effects of seeing the original play-out since the images looked almost identical. The third party got caught, but he didn’t because the system never realised they were picking up two different versions of the same murder. As I’ve gotten older _The Magic Schoolbus_ has started to bother me. It’s not the impossibility of an actual magic bus, or an intelligant lizard, or anything like that…but what the heck kind of school do those kids go to to have a class size of 8? ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/139 "2006-06-23T01:37:05Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] I’ve heard that Gary Larsen calls a lot of these “mosquito errors”. There’s a Far Side comic with a male mosquito coming home, throwing his hat off, and telling his wife what a long day he had drinking blood. He got _all sorts_ of letters complaining about it - people had no problem with mosquitos wearing coats and hats, being married, having cute little decorated domiciles - but they were _furious_ because only female mosquitos drink blood. [/QUOTE] In The Pre-History of The Far Side Gary also points out that he drew bananas growing downward, opposite of the way they actually do. (Oh, and the caption on the mosquito panel was “What a day…I must have spread malaria across half the country.”) ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603/140 "2006-06-23T02:12:16Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] May I please use that as a screen name? 😃 [/QUOTE] knock yerself out. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-my-suspension-of-disbelief-doesnt-stretch-that-far-open-spoilers/361603.md?page=8)