# Sorry people, but Linux sucks! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501 "2003-11-21T15:03:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/101 "2003-12-02T15:57:48Z")
When I was a regular windows user (any flavor though I’ve never really used xp) I had to reformat and reinstall it about every 6 months or so because it would become unusable. One by one, my applications would start to fail. My wife, however had a pentium I that I cobbled together and ran windows 98 no problem for 3 years until we gave it away (I think those folks have also not had any problems with it). The difference is my wife was only using office and internet software. I tend to have half a dozen or more different applications running simultaneously for work. I think perhaps it was my programming that did the most damage as during development you tend to crash the computer alot. Linux has made my work easier because I no longer have those problems. However, for personal use I find them both fine. But you get much more games on windows (or wintendo as my nerd buddies like to call it). ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/102 "2003-12-03T02:04:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by V.bis and Baudhead \* > \*\*Linux does **NOT** bite ass. I can’t count the number of times I’ve put a computer together and wound up hopping up and down, screaming and cursing, because some card or other didn’t want to work with Windows. In _every_ case the Linux installation on those same machines went smoothly and easily. For example, the sound card I use right now - a rather obscure SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 model - is not supported in Windows directly and working drivers are not available from the SB folks. Works fine in Linux though - automatically. > \*\* I’m baffled. Why do so many cards and other equipment seem to be incompatible with Windows? Seeing as Microsoft is the elephant in the bedroom, i.e. the one company you \*\* cannot \*\* overlook or ignore, why in the world would a company fail to make its product compatible with the latest versions of Windows? Why would the Soundblaster folks fail to make a driver for that card easily available? Was this simply an old card that SB no longer thought worth supporting? And would it really be that hard/expensive to update the driver for a newer version of Windows? I ask because I keep hearing how folks have one piece of hardware or another that won’t work with Windows, and I can’t imagine why a manufacturer would fail to make their products compatible with the most widely used OS in the world. I know a lot of it must be old hardware that the makers no longer support, but I really don’t think that can account for all the horror stories I hear. What’s the deal? Being a Mac fan, I rarely have this problem … ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/103 "2003-12-03T13:22:12Z")
I’ve never had a problem with anything being _incompatable_ with Windows. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/104 "2003-12-03T17:37:06Z")
New fun toy: MandrakeMove. [www.mandrakesoft.com](http://www.mandrakesoft.com) . It’s a linux distribution, like knoppix, that you download the cd image of, burn it to CD, then just boot off the CD without actually harming your hard drive in any way. Good for checking around the state of the art. Speaking of the state of the art, as of yesterday, linux finally got full read-write NTFS capability. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/105 "2003-12-03T18:34:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*I’ve never had a problem with anything being _incompatable_ with Windows. \*\* But apparently you do have a big problem with correct spelling, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/106 "2003-12-04T01:05:10Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by E-Sabbath_ > **Speaking of the state of the art, as of yesterday, linux finally got full read-write NTFS capability.** State of the art will be _native_ read-write support for NTFS, not a slow wrapper around Microsoft’s driver. The current solution only works for people who have NT installed. ---
**Author:** ![sportshoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@sportshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sportshoe)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/107 "2003-12-24T14:17:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by edwino \* > \*\*I don’t care if your XP box has an uptime of 3 years, is running third party firewall software and an FTP server, a http server, and a telnet server. I don’t care that you have the latest version of Office XP and Photoshop running and your machine never crashes. > > For you to run that stuff (legally) on a Windows box, you will invest at least $1000 on software. To run that stuff legally on a Linux box, you need not spend a penny. > > That’s the real reason Linux is awesome. It is the perfect choice for a cost-conscious company, but the exact same starting materials are available to any hobbyist out there. Whether your interests are setting up a secure corporate intranet or photoshopping (actually GIMPing) the head of George Bush onto Ron Jeremy’s body, you sacrifice no quality while saving a bundle of money. \*\* I must agree on you when it comes to cost. Microsoft is way 2 expensive. See you Linux geeks, try convincing me with arguments, not by trying to trash down windows. Besides. only Linux geeks try to trash windows, windows users just leave linux users alone. One more hint to all you Linux fanatics. **GET A LIFE**. leave your dusty little rooms, forget about linux for a while and go drink a pint. If you can remember where the pubs in your town are. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/108 "2003-12-24T14:40:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*State of the art will be _native_ read-write support for NTFS, not a slow wrapper around Microsoft’s driver. The current solution only works for people who have NT installed. \*\* Are you saying that during install it grabs the NTFS driver from the Windows partition? There’s a chicken-and-egg problem there… ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/109 "2003-12-24T16:18:27Z")
No, 2001, state of the art of Linux _is_ what I mentioned before. Actually, it’s pretty nifty. Installation of this feature hooks up to the existing NT driver in one of two ways. First, it checks the NTFS partition for an existing NT install. If there is one, it grabs the driver. If it’s _not_ there, it grabs the publically accessable service pack for windows, and extracts the driver from it. Note that you do not need to reinstall your OS or anything to add this feature. Just add it, and boom. Working. It’s purty, by the way. And elegant, technically. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/110 "2003-12-24T17:46:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LonesomePolecat \* > \*\*But apparently you do have a big problem with correct spelling, asshole. \*\* I bet you’re a real charmer with the ladies. What the fuck is up your ass? ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/111 "2003-12-24T18:52:26Z")
Since this has been resurrected, how’s the linux going **World Eater**? Are you a full-fledged convert now? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/112 "2003-12-24T18:59:46Z")
It’s going great, and I’m a huge fan. I’d say I use it about 50% of the time, checking email and surfing around and such. I haven’t had the full time to toy around like I want to, but I’ve been reading some books and absorbing the knowledge well. I need some more ram though, it’s running a bit too slow for my tastes. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/113 "2003-12-24T19:18:59Z")
_Now there’s Linux, or Line-ux, I dunno how you say it Or how you install it or use it or play it Or where you download it or what programs run, But Linux or Line-ux don’t look like much fun. However you say it, it’s getting great press, Though how it survives is anyone’s guess. If you ask me, it’s a great big mess For elitist, nerdy schmucks. “It’s free,” they say, if you can get it to run. The geeks say “Hey, that’s half the fun!” Yeah, but I got a girlfriend and things to get done. The Linux OS sucks!_ –Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, “Every OS Sucks” Sorry, I couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/114 "2003-12-25T00:07:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*Are you saying that during install it grabs the NTFS driver from the Windows partition? > > There’s a chicken-and-egg problem there… \*\* Not really… the NT boot loader works the same way. It’s much easier to read from NTFS than to write to it, so there’s a simple read-only NTFS driver included in the boot loader, which is used to load the full driver from the partition. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by E-Sabbath_ > \*\*Actually, it’s pretty nifty. Installation of this feature hooks up to the existing NT driver in one of two ways. First, it checks the NTFS partition for an existing NT install. If there is one, it grabs the driver. > > If it’s _not_ there, it grabs the publically accessable service pack for windows, and extracts the driver from it.\*\* That’s all fine, but what about systems that aren’t connected to the internet and don’t have NT installed? Suppose you have a Linux box in your living room with a TV tuner and no network access, and you want to hook up your NTFS FireWire drive to do some video capture. I mean, sure, loading the Windows driver is an impressive trick. But wake me up when there’s a stable native NTFS driver that can be used for writing. ---
**Author:** ![leenmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f1d935/32.png) [@leenmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leenmi)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/115 "2003-12-25T00:33:14Z")
Nice corner case. Nice extreme corner case, **Mr2001**. Jesus wept, man, but you are something else. Why wouldn’t you use a drive that allowed another file system? Why, if you were geeky enough to be doing video capture on a Linux box that you for some reason refuse to connect to the internet, wouldn’t you have a drive that allowed you to use another file system? In your example, you choose to have Linux. You choose not to dual boot. You know there is no native NTFS support, but you buy a firewire drive to which you can not write instead of one you can reformat. And then you use this artificial corner case to scoff at the ability to use the existing NT driver because it’s not impressive. You are what is wrong with Linux. Yep. You. Go back to sleep. Dream your l33t dreams. We’ll wake you up when there isn’t enough ignorance in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/116 "2003-12-25T01:59:29Z")
Gee, maybe I should move to Omaha, where there’s apparently wireless internet in every house, plenty of hard drive space to install all the operating systems you want, and where “loading the Windows driver is an impressive trick” really means “it’s _not_ impressive”. Linux can read/write ext3, ReiserFS, and dozens of other filesystems… yet NTFS still eludes them. This NT driver emulation is useful for the time being, but a native driver will perform better and will work on non-Intel systems. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/117 "2003-12-25T04:51:16Z")
Yes, yes it is, 2001. (It’s so hard to md WINNT, copy d:\i386 tfs.sys c:\winnt). There are reasons, apparently, that it’s hard to deal with NTFS. Not least of which being that the specs aren’t publically accessable and free to use. Microsoft owns 'em. So anything you do either has to be licensed by Microsoft… there _is_ a way to do native NTFS, I think, but you have to pay $ for it… or you can try this little piece of judo and have it work for free. (I’m amazed your video capture box has no network card. My antique TiVo series one has a network card in it. I’m also amazed that your firewire drive is under 500 megs or so.) Face it, it’s not perfect. But it’s a pretty neat way around an existing issue. Linux is, in my opinion, not really ready for the casual desktop user, but it’s a great darn server OS. It’s also a good tool to play with and learn. Big deal. I’m sure Windows is better for whatever you do. But if you don’t have a windows computer to format the firewire drive as NTFS, why not just reformat it as FAT or ext3? ---
**Author:** ![leenmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f1d935/32.png) [@leenmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leenmi)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/118 "2003-12-25T05:16:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*Gee, maybe I should move to Omaha, where there’s apparently wireless internet in every house, plenty of hard drive space to install all the operating systems you want, and where “loading the Windows driver is an impressive trick” really means “it’s _not_ impressive”. > > Linux can read/write ext3, ReiserFS, and dozens of other filesystems… yet NTFS still eludes them. This NT driver emulation is useful for the time being, but a native driver will perform better and will work on non-Intel systems. \*\* Your corner case was that you had a linux box with no access to the internet. Now, every house in Omaha doesn’t have a wireless network, but you have to go out of your way not to have a phone and internet access. And now you want to expand your corner case to non-Intel systems? I assume your talking beyond AMD, too. Such as what? Yellow Dog Linux? Sparc workstations? What did you do, dig up an old DEC Alpha? The question still stands then: why did you buy an NTFS device that couldn’t be reformatted if you are using hardware that can’t run Windows? Native drivers would be nice, but unless Microsoft wants to release the specs or create drivers of their own, it’s not going to happen. And don’t move to Omaha. We put the people we like to make fun of in Council Bluffs, IA. It’s right across the river; I’m sure you’ll fit in. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/119 "2003-12-25T07:36:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leenmi \* > **Your corner case was that you had a linux box with no access to the internet. Now, every house in Omaha doesn’t have a wireless network, but you have to go out of your way not to have a phone and internet access.** Maybe so, but that doesn’t mean every computer in the house can get online. You might not have LAN or phone access in every room. > [@](#): > > **And now you want to expand your corner case to non-Intel systems? I assume your talking beyond AMD, too. Such as what? Yellow Dog Linux? Sparc workstations? What did you do, dig up an old DEC Alpha?** Linux runs on all kinds of hardware besides x86. Alpha, ARM, 68k, MIPS, PA-RISC, PowerPC, Sparc, PS2, Dreamcast, etc. > [@](#): > > **The question still stands then: why did you buy an NTFS device that couldn’t be reformatted if you are using hardware that can’t run Windows?** Reformatted? If that’s such a great solution, then why bother emulating the driver in the first place? Just make everyone reformat their NTFS volumes to a filesystem Linux can use! Maybe the data you need is used in an NT application where the performance or security of FAT won’t cut it. Or maybe you just don’t want to deal with the hassle of backing up and restoring a hundred gigabytes. > [@](#): > > **Native drivers would be nice, but unless Microsoft wants to release the specs or create drivers of their own, it’s not going to happen.** I doubt that. They already have read-only access working fine, and a small subset of write access is safe enough to be usable. Look, the emulated drivers are decent enough for someone who dual boots and just wants to organize his MP3s or copy documents from Linux, which probably describes 90% of the people who would need the driver. But don’t pretend that Linux is suddenly on par with Windows as far as NTFS access goes, or that NTFS is now anywhere as usable as other filesystems in Linux. > [@](#): > > \*\*And don’t move to Omaha. We put the people we like to make fun of in Council Bluffs, IA. It’s right across the river; I’m sure you’ll fit in. \*\* Don’t worry, I’ve been to Nebraska. Once was enough. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501/120 "2003-12-25T15:54:15Z")
… You’re very strange. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-people-but-linux-sucks/214501.md?page=7)