Sorry people, but Linux sucks!

The BBQ Pit
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** But don’t pretend that Linux is suddenly on par with Windows as far as NTFS access goes, or that NTFS is now anywhere as usable as other filesystems in Linux.**

WTF? I never pretended that Linux was on par with Windows for NTFS access, or that NTFS was as usable as other file systems. I don’t even think it needs to be.

I think you have lost sight of my point. It isn’t about the drivers or Linux being on par with Windows for accessing Windows-proprietary formats. No, my point was, and is, that your artificially contrived corner case was bullshit.

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I’m sure the people who use and develop Linux for other platforms would be thrilled to learn how insignificant you think they are.

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Rest assured, I respect them greatly. I respect them so much that I believe they would be smart enough to buy a device they could format with a file system they could use.

Happy Holidays.

Your corner case is still bullshit.

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Yawn. If it’s so simple to copy an NTFS drive over to another file system, why bother supporting NTFS at all? Hell, why bother supporting any other FS - who needs to mount a Minix or UFS partition when it’s oh-so-easy to just “format it with a file system you can use”?

Surely no one would ever need the extra performance, security descriptors, or error recovery provided by a file system like NTFS, right? FAT32 has every feature you could ever need, and anything else is just a luxury. Oh, and everyone has a stack of 150 CDs lying around to back up their files, and doesn’t mind spending 12 hours to do it.

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You’re still a very strange person.

If you’re not dual-booting to NT, there’s no real reason to use NTFS. There are other journaling file systems that are just as functional.

If you are dual-booting to NT, then presto, you have NT there, nice and shiny.

If you happen to be sharing a removable drive between NT and Linux, then, yes, you can use FAT32, or you can use a different file system that both operating systems can read. NT can read ext2/ext3, for example, IIRC, with a proper third party driver that can be easily installed.

Or, you know, you can mess with things and get this embedded-NT driver to work on the linux box. It’s not impossible, it’s not even that hard. It may take a bit of thought, but if you’re running Linux, which is mostly a server operating system, a unix derivative, not quite ready for the personal desktop, in my opinion, and you’re doing somewhat exotic things with it…

Well, you’re going to have to do a little bit of reading the instructions. I’m sorry, I know it’s hard to think. But sometimes it’s a task you just can’t avoid.

Still, it certainly is better to have the ntfs option than not, isn’t it? You just have to copy the driver over once to get it to work every time.

My current experiment with it is highly successful… I have a mandrakemove CD and the driver on a USB key. Click-click type, and I’ve got the existing /hda mounted under linux.

I have yet to see any objective speed comparisons, I suspect it is not as fast as a pure native driver… but I don’t think it’s much slower, either. Order of milliseconds. I also think that the method shows much potential for general application, such that any windows device could be run under linux. Eventually.

So… what’s your beef, 2001? You seem to have some sort of… personal issue here. Do you need help? Do you need me to walk you through something for a solution? Even if you are a telemarketer, I’ll still go the extra mile for you.

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Windows XP Professional is the best OS IMHO.

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Write access to NT from Linux? Link?

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Captive-NTFS

It’s not perfect, so I’d be shy about using it for mission-critical data, but it’s works well for me in my dual-boot situation.

It does not work well when you have an antiquated or non-x86 platform in a room with no network access and a desire to capture video even though you don’t have the diskspace to dual boot. Somehow this is proof that Linux sucks.

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BTW, I gave up on Linux and reclaimed the HD space for worthwhile pursuits…“Oh but it’s so easy…except to do something complex like errrr get your modem working and then you’ll need this kernel patch except you’re running the wrong kernel in the first place but HEY at least you’re not giving money to Gates and you never need to reboot except when you’ve changed the kernel which is with every driver change so it’s the same as Windows and errrrrrr but Apache’s very good…”

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GorillaMan, getting your modem working is not complex unless you insist on using the winmodem integrated with the mainboard. The one that was designed with the assumption that everyone uses a Microsoft operating system. Most people simply buy a modem for less than $10 USD and use that.

Great strides have been made in the driver category. Except for the newer NVidia drivers, I haven’t had to monkey with the kernel at all.

Linux isn’t for everyone. But it’s for more people than you realize and it’s getting better all the time.

Windows 95/98 time frame, hardware incompatibility issues and missing drivers were a big problem for Windows. Now, it’s assumed that if you make a computer peripheral or develop software, it works with Windows. Microsoft was able to do this by using the bully pulpit inherent to their ubiquity. Good for them. But don’t pretend it’s a better operating system because of this.

Windows isn’t better, it’s just everywhere. Abd that is changing.

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It’s really quite simple.

If you want to take some time to learn an operating system from the ground-up, don’t really care for the latest PC games (1); believe that “innovate” should mean more than “buy technology for a pittance, take credit for inventing it”; don’t hyperventilate at the thought of “compiling a kernel” (2); don’t mind spending a few more bucks for a modem that doesn’t suck CPU cycles like a vampire at a hemopheliac convention; and can read a manual, then Linux is for you.

If, on the other hand, you fear change; absolutely must have the latest PC games; don’t give a shit about Microsoft’s illegal dealings; have the money for the biggest and baddest computers on the market; and, when confronted with a problem, sit there and wave your flippers around like a thalidomide baby; then stick to Windows.

(1): I’m a huge gamer, but I have a PS2, a GameCube and a Dreamcast for that sort of thing. There ARE, of course, plenty of games for Linux and almost all the old consoles are emulated.

(2): I’m in the Air Force. If I told the people at work I “compiled a kernel”, they think I did something indecent with a high-ranking officer.

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Sorry, I was ranting about my Alcatel ADSL modem, which seems to have been distributed throughout Europe judging by the nuumber of French, German and Dutch Google results…Trouble is, it supposedly has ‘great’ support online, but everything suggested came out with errors or blanks, and every appeal to a message board or a mail list either got “rtfm” (as if), or “go back to windows” (durrrrrr), or “never mind it’s still better than M$”…or “tell us every log file you’ve ever had and we’ll try and work it out” ARRGHHH

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And…

Tentacle Monster…

I don’t have the time to learn to build from the ground up. Not everyone should. I’ve played no games more complex than Minesweeper on a PC, ever. I can read a manual, and I’ll probably tell you how bad their index was.
Windows, including XP, are far too unreliable. I’ve done 3 clean installs of XP in 2 months, and I suspect more are to come. I want a way out. And I want a way to not spend a fortnight’ s earnings on one update.
HOWEVER…

I want somthing that OPERATES…and my admitedly limited Linux experience has shown me that if the hardware has not already been anticipated for, it’s ignored. That’s not operation. That’s a kernel, and a few apps, pretending to be an all-singing all-dancing GUI-based system…and they can only make enemies making claims like that.

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Yep. About the size of it.

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WTF does ‘about the size of it’ mean? I’d pit it if I knew what I was supposed to be talking about

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GorillaMan, I understand you were frustrated by your Linux experience. If you are happy with Windows, so be it. But I gotta know: What distribution did you try and how long ago did you try it? How did you decide on that distribution?

I don’t want to try and re-convert you. I’m just curious.

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No, I don’t. Nor do I want to learn how to make my own car from rocks and twigs. I don’t want to cook with a wood stove, either. And I don’t need to use a couple of tin cans and string to talk to people. Not everyone wants to spend the time to learn a system from the beginning. I don’t want to program. I want to USE a computer. Sure, other operating systems might have their flaws, but they don’t force me to learn stuff that I don’t need. It’s not that I fear change, but that I deal with a lot of things all the time. Look, if it’s a real IMPROVEMENT in my life, I’ll learn it. I learned D&D 3rd edition, after all, even though I’ve played D&D/AD&D from the three boxed booklets. The thing is, I’ve got a limited amount of time. I want to spend MOST of my time doing things that I enjoy. Learning a new computer system is not one of them. I know that other people enjoy it. Good for them. I’m not one of them.

I keep hearing how Windows is so badly designed. Well, fine, I want someone who says this to come up with an OS that I can use, that’s COMPATIBLE with most other OS, and that will play my games. Sure, I’ve got a PS2. I’ve also got my Fallouts and various Zorks, can’t give THOSE up.

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Heh. All I’m saying is this emulated driver is no replacement for a real native driver.

And I’m not a telemarketer.

Actually, a lot of “winmodems” work in Linux, you just need the closed-source drivers. I installed SuSE on an eMachine and got the onboard HSF modem working without a hitch. It’s a lot like using the NTFS driver, really.

If you can find a hardware-based modem for $10, I’d love to see it. I couldn’t find one for less than $80 when I was looking for a modem.

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My bad. Cheap ones range from under 10 dollars to around 20 dollars.

You can splurge for extra features and go up to 100 dollars.

For the home computers I built within the last year, I paid a little over 9 dollars for the modems.

The web site for the store I got them at is down right now, so here is an example off the web.

Not sure what you mean by hardware based. I’m talking about PCI modems.

Price Grabber

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GorillaMan & Lynn Bondoni:

By all means, use Windows. I’m not evangelical about Linux. BUT, I’m all for fighting ignorance (in those people who aren’t willingly, anti-intellectually ignorant).

GorillaMan: You’re frustrated with Windows, yet don’t think Linux is ready for prime time. I use Linux for about the same things I used Windows for, it’s just a learning process. If you’re using a DSL connection, SuSE has a automatic configuration for DSL (I don’t use DSL, I’m not vouching for it). And it’s not as if you have to learn it ALL before you can even start using it. I get around with about a dozen or so commands, including syntax. And it helps, immensely, to actually know someone in meatspace who knows more than you about Linux. Hell, that’s true for any OS.

Lynn Bondoni: The reason that there’ll likely never be an OS that’s fully compatible with all of the others is because Microsoft and Apple have closed API’s. There have been projects with some success (WINE, etc), but it’s an uphill battle. HOWEVER, my real question is… I understand, you like your Fallout, but ZORK? As in, Infocom text adventure, likely to be eaten by a grue ZORK? A quick search on freshmeat.net reveals at least six Infocom interpreters, and even an app for reading the Invisiclues.

…not quite pit-worthy.