# Sorry, SHAKES, but yes, you ARE a bigot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925 "2004-07-13T17:22:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/1 "2004-07-13T17:22:44Z")
Per the following threads: [The solution to the gay marriage controversy(?)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=266166) > [@](#): > > Can’t we keep anything sacred anymore? Is there anything so inherently wrong with keeping marriage between a man and a woman while still aloting CU’s all the rights that a married couple has? [/quote] It can. But why does it have to be called marriage? When marriage is already being used by mostly hetero couples. Calling it marriage just kind of craps all over the marriage my parents had or my grandparents had ect… [/quote] [/quote] Well, actually, yeah. I’m mean you talk like that it’s not really such a big deal, but it is. I don’t want to get you riled up again Sol, but this kind of all ties back into why I say (think) gay marriages aren’t as equal as hetero ones are… Disclaimer: even though I think this doesn’t mean I think gay people are inferior. In the end we’re all just human… [/quote] And of course, there was this thread he started: [IF we allow gay marriages…(a different take. (I think))](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=264893) I’ll skip his opening argument, because he admits it makes no sense, since he was, as he claimed, drunk at the time it was posted. Nonetheless, his sober arguments weren’t much of an improvement: > [@](#): > > So with that in mind I feel I DO have the right to know ones sexual orientation under certain circumstances Such as: is my doctor gay? or am I being patted down by a gay officer? or am I sharing a locker room with a gay person? > > I personally feel I should have that right. Any debates as to why I shouldn’t? > [@](#): > > Well because in my life I’ve known five gay people who I THOUGHT were my friends. Turns out everyone of them turned out to be corrupt in one way or another; wheather it be trying to seduce a 14yo on an internet chat room or trying to feel me up while I sleep. Now, I can get over the fact that I got felt up and all that; its really not going to scar me for life or anything. But what really has me miffed is I thought these people were my friends and as it turns out I was just a SUCKER. > Now I fully realize that these five people I knew are hardly a representitive of all gay people everywhere, I know. But still, with those kinds of numbers you’d be hard pressed to get me to believe that at least 1 out of 5 are corrupt in some way shape or form. Sorry, that just the way I feel. And no I don’t have any scientific data to back that up. > [@](#): > > No, I’m not sugesting that we use Nazi-style enforcement here. Just simple things like when you join a gym and your filling out the application; it should ask “sexuall orientation” also as a propieter of said gym I should be allowed to decline the application due to this alone in order to satisfy the MAJORITY of my clientel. > [@](#): > > That is to say with the law the way it is now By that I mean if say like an owner of a bar wants to refuse service to black people than I think he should be able to do so. Now, personally I would never go to a bar like this because I don’t agree with this sort of mentality nor do I want to hang with people who do. But that’s a whole other debate all together. [/quote] One thing that still gets me though about homosexuallity is the fact that we’re seemingly treating it like people who are gay are born into a race itself like Asian, Indian ect…Shouldn’t we instead be treating this as if it were a sickness like cancer or Autism ect…? And don’t WE as a society have a moral obligation to try and find a cure for it? Which btw I think marriage does in a way normalize it and takes away from the fact that maybe we need to be more proactive in finding a “cure” for this. I mean really, I think with the proper research it would be great if a hundred years from now instead of gay people having to go through all this turmoil can take a pill or whatever to make them better. And by better I mean the way nature (God/Darwin/natrual order of the universe) intended it to be. [/quote] > [@](#): > > I keeep telling everyone that being gay is NOT normal and everybody gets in a tizzy and wants to call me a bigot. Whatever, I’ve always treated everybody with nothing but respect no matter WHAT their sexual orientation is. > > So yeah guys I guess I am a bigot for the simple fact that I think it would be great to be able to cure people with the gay-sickness or whatever you want to call it. Come to think of it, I guess I’m even MORE of a bad guy for wanting a cure for cancer, AIDS and every other disease out there. Damn! look out Satan, there’s a new king in town. > [@](#): > > As far as how is gay being harmfull? Well I guess it isn’t too harmfull aside from the fact that the spread of AIDS is rampant for homosexuals. > > Or the fact that I believe that for alot of gays also carries along a stigma of being corrupt in some way like I mentioned before about the gay friends that I’ve had. > [@](#): > > Or the fact that gay couple feel they are perfectly right and just bringing children into a gay relationship. By that I mean two Daddies want to raise a kid as their own. Idealy kids don’t deserve this, they deserve the very best life has to offer; Which would be both a mother AND a father. And for gay people to sit there and tell me they should have the right to raise children lilke this is shelfish at best. > Now, granted, I’ll give you this, if a kid has a choice between living in poverty or living with a loving gay couple; I would of course choose that the kid live with the gay couple. Remember I said idealy If we could cure the gay problem this wouldn’t ever happen. > > But aside from all that, from philosophical stand point, I think it’s a shame that gay people will never know the love that CAN be shared between a man and a woman. A love that could not possibly be equaled by any gay relationship. Sorry > [@](#): > > There you go interjecting again spectrum. I do not, I repeat I DO NOT think gay people are any less worthy than straight people. Yes, you’re right in your assertion that I think there is something wrong with gay people as in the way your brain chemsitry works But thats not your fault, just like it’s not my fault I was born with asthma. I don’t get offended when people tell me I have something wrong with my breathing. So why do YOU get offended when I say you have something wrong with your desire to be with the same sex? > BTW this debate is allowed because no one here is spreading hatred; dispite what you think. THEN, after all that, you say: > [@](#): > > And FTR I have NEVER thought of homosexuals as lesser people. Also I open my home and am willing to break with; and have stimuatling conversation with ANYONE who wants to share a mutual respect. I’ve never (in my adult life) shut anyone out based solely on their sexual orientation, race or religious beliefs. period. Okay, let’s review, shall we? So far, you’ve compared being gay to cancer, autism, an ass pimple, asthma, unnatural, it’s a sickness, abnormal, etc. Something wrong with the “brain chemistry.” You don’t believe they should be allowed to have privacy, in that YOU have the “right” to know that they’re gay, because you don’t want to associate with them. (At least at the gym, or at the doctor, because, doncha know, those damn homos just lust after everything with a penis!) You say that in your experience (FIVE people that you know of, who were gay), gays are corrupt, that their love can never be as good or decent or equal as that between a man and a woman. As for the stigma-ever stop and think that statements like your’s are only contributing to that stigma? Irony, you’re soaking in it! You say that allowing gays to get married, two people who love each other, want to commit and take care of each other, is “crapping on the union that your grandparents had.” You give us that you “support civil unions, just not marriage.” Well that’s bullshit. That’s like saying that blacks and whites in the South prior to the Civil Rights Act were equal because they both had water fountains. So basically, gays are unnatural, diseased, their feelings are inferior, that them getting married would be an insult to straights…but you’re not a bigot. Right. If that were true, then I would HATE to see what you consider real bigotry. Just because you’re not out playing “smear the queer!” every night doesn’t mean you’re not being a prejudiced jackass. Just like the alcoholic husband who insults his wife and puts her down, but hey, “at least I don’t HIT her.” And it doesn’t matter if you “believe” they aren’t inferior. Whether you do or not. It matters that you TREAT them as inferior, with your statements and your actions. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/2 "2004-07-13T18:08:49Z")
You make a pretty convincing case, **Guin**. Hey **SHAKES** - by your own admission you’re a bigot. Intolerence and willful ignorance are, in my mind, far worse than being gay. You can’t help being gay. > [@SHAKES](#): > > BTW this debate is allowed because no one here is spreading hatred; dispite what you think. Wow, defensive much? I submit that this disclaimer was posted because you DO realize that you are uncomfortably close to hate speech here, or at least what a sizeable percentage of the population of this board would consider hateful and deeply offensive. > [@Grand Kleagle SHAKES](#): > > I think with the proper research it would be great if a hundred years from now instead of gay people having to go through all this turmoil can take a pill or whatever to make them better. And by better I mean the way nature (God/Darwin/natrual order of the universe) intended it to be. Yes, because i’m sure you know exactly how ‘Nature, God, Darwin, and the natrual [sic] order of the universe intended it to be’ :rolleyes: > [@David Duke Jr.](#): > > By that I mean if say like an owner of a bar wants to refuse service to black people than I think he should be able to do so. Holy Fuck! I can’t believe you actually said this. What size sheet do you wear? > [@Our Martyr](#): > > I think it would be great to be able to cure people with the gay-sickness or whatever you want to call it. Come to think of it, I guess I’m even MORE of a bad guy for wanting a cure for cancer, AIDS and every other disease out there. Because I’m quite sure that all those god-hatin’ pillow-bitin’ evil-spreadin’ gays WANT to be cured, right SHAKES? BTW, nice strawman… > [@Der SHAKESFUHRER](#): > > Remember I said idealy If we could cure the gay problem this wouldn’t ever happen. Gay problem, huh? Kind of like that pesky old ‘jewish problem’ a few years back? Go piss up a rope, SHAKES. Your intolerance disgusts me. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/3 "2004-07-13T18:34:36Z")
> [@](#): > > But what really has me miffed is I thought these people were my friends and as it turns out I was just a SUCKER. So, are you pissed because they were deceivers or because you were deceived? If you’re pissed because you were a sucker, how is this their fault, and how does their being gay make you a sucker? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/4 "2004-07-13T18:38:00Z")
> [@Guin](#): > > You say that allowing gays to get married, two people who love each other, want to commit and take care of each other, is “crapping on the union that your grandparents had.” That’s one that really riles my ass. If marriage is so fucking sacred, then outlaw divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/5 "2004-07-13T18:45:00Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That’s one that really riles my ass. If marriage is so fucking sacred, then outlaw divorce. Amen! Good point! I never thought of that. SHAKES is certainly acting bigoted but at least he seems open to discussion, so maybe as long as no one turns up the heat this can have a good ending. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/6 "2004-07-13T19:28:33Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That’s one that really riles my ass. If marriage is so fucking sacred, then outlaw divorce. We don’t agree often, but kudos to you for pointing this out. You know who craps on the institution of marriage? Irresponsible people who don’t take their promises seriously. Granted, by allowing gays to marry we will see an increase of gay divorce and annulment, because irresponsibility and bad decision-making knows no color, gender, or sexual orientation, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/7 "2004-07-13T19:38:38Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > Granted, by allowing gays to marry we will see an increase of gay divorce and annulment, because irresponsibility and bad decision-making knows no color, gender, or sexual orientation, I’m afraid. True, but I suspect the increase will be proportional and the percentage will remain about the same. I think Britney Spears is much more an affront to traditional marriage than gay people are. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/8 "2004-07-13T20:19:52Z")
> [@porcupine](#): > > True, but I suspect the increase will be proportional and the percentage will remain about the same. > > I think Britney Spears is much more an affront to traditional marriage than gay people are. 😃 I wasn’t gonna name names, but I was thinking the same thing. 😉 Elizabeth Taylor too. There should be a limit to the number of times you can promise to spend the rest of your life with someone, seriously. ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/9 "2004-07-13T20:41:19Z")
WOW!, Shakes, thanks for the “Jerry Springer” moment, you have just provided the mouth-breatin’, gun totin’ rednecks on this board with a few steps up the evolutionary ladder and speaking as the poster-boy I THANK YOU. Unclviny ---
**Author:** ![factorial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed8c4c/32.png) [@factorial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/factorial)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/10 "2004-07-13T20:59:25Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That’s one that really riles my ass. If marriage is so fucking sacred, then outlaw divorce. A-fucking-men. I have a (not-so) great-uncle who is against gay marriage. He’s on his third wife. :smack: :smack: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/11 "2004-07-13T21:15:50Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That’s one that really riles my ass. If marriage is so fucking sacred, then outlaw divorce. That sounds good on the surface, but if you turn that rock over, you’ll see what’s crawling underneath: Most rabid anit-gays would love to outlaw divorce. Seriously, ask the Catholic Church if that would be such a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/12 "2004-07-13T21:25:08Z")
My biggest beef, with **SHAKES** , so far, is that he seems to want it both ways: he spews his garbage and bigotry all over the place, and yet insists that we not think of him as a bigot. I’ve seen that with a LOT of people-they want to be able to say, “Well, I’m not a racist, but those no good black/Asian/Jews blah blah blah…” Nope, sorry. You CANNOT have it both ways. If you are going to make these kinds of statements, then you have to accept that people are going to see you (correctly) as a bigot. If you don’t want to be known as a bigot, well, then stop acting like one. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/13 "2004-07-13T21:42:15Z")
I’ll suggest that people give him a chance to 'splain himself before the pile on ensues. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/14 "2004-07-13T21:49:23Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That’s one that really riles my ass. If marriage is so fucking sacred, then outlaw divorce. Careful motherfucker, Divorce is my livelihood and job security. If you say it any louder, and the administration get ahold of it, they might pass the “Defense of Hating Each Other and Staying Together Even Though We’re Miserable” Act. 🙂 Sam ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/15 "2004-07-13T23:26:23Z")
[QUOTE=picker (Re: SHAKES “By that I mean if say like an owner of a bar wants to refuse service to black people than I think he should be able to do so”)] Holy Fuck! I can’t believe you actually said this. What size sheet do you wear? [/QUOTE] Supporting unconditional, individual property rights doesn’t necessarily make one a klansman. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/16 "2004-07-13T23:38:04Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Supporting unconditional, individual property rights doesn’t necessarily make one a klansman. No, it doesn’t. But we have laws here that state when one opens up a business in the PUBLIC sector, even if it is PRIVATELY owned, one cannot discriminate based on race, and for very good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/17 "2004-07-14T00:23:29Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > No, it doesn’t. But we have laws here that state when one opens up a business in the PUBLIC sector, even if it is PRIVATELY owned, one cannot discriminate based on race, and for very good reason. So are all 125+ million people in Japan racists? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/18 "2004-07-14T00:38:47Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > So are all 125+ million people in Japan racists? Huh? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/19 "2004-07-14T00:47:00Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I’ll suggest that people give him a chance to 'splain himself before the pile on ensues Oh, yeah! I’m at work right now. When I get a chance I’ll be back. Not dodging anyone here… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925/20 "2004-07-14T01:03:52Z")
When you do come back, _SHAKES_\*, I’d be obliged if you would very carefully and clearly explain the comment about your grandparents; specifically, how one instance of something is debased by the mere existence of something completely separate that is similar, but not exactly the same. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-shakes-but-yes-you-are-a-bigot/254925.md?page=2)