# Sorry to dredge this up ... but did Clinton staffers REALLY vandalize the W.H.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022 "2004-02-19T16:00:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/41 "2004-02-19T21:38:05Z")
Folks, $19K of damage on furnishings in a building the size of the White House is _bupkis_, especially when it appears that a fair bit of the damage was ordinary wear and tear over 8 years. I get the impression that people hear “White House” and analogize to, well, a house. No. It’s basically an office building. First of all, even the original White House was pretty big. But the much-expanded current White House, whose wings are only barely visible either from the South Lawn (where TV cameras tend to hang out) or Pennsylvania Avenue (where tourists can see it), is _enormous_: 132 rooms, huge staff, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/42 "2004-02-19T21:51:59Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > 'So many people hold one guy responsible for everything under them, but give the guy from other party a pass on everything." > > Accurate and ironic in that this is rightly observed by _both_ sides, much to the chagrin of each. Agreed. I’m under no illusion that people on my “side” don’t make the same logical error. And I’m sure I make it too sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![JRR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecccb3/32.png) [@JRR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRR)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/43 "2004-02-19T21:54:20Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > [hijack] > Because Franken is telling the truth, and [frankenlies.com is the one lying to you.](http://frankenlies.blogspot.com/) > [/hijack] That site doesn’t say a _single thing_ about the vandalism charge, and is written in such a breathless, “how DARE they question him!” tone it’s almost laughable. That said, looking at the GAO report, the issue isn’t the cost of the damage, it’s the vulgarity and hatred shown by the vandals who acted like junior high-schoolers rather than professionals in the most important office in the country. It may only take $5 worth of paint to cover up a racial/sexual/etc insult spraypainted on the side of your house, but the impact can be huge. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/44 "2004-02-19T22:04:39Z")
Me too **Rev**. **Oxy** , I don’t think it was the money that might have offended folks as much as the perceived lack of respect and just trying to make sure something illegal hadn’t occurred. Whether the cost be large or small, theft and vandalism in the White House by staff would understandably raise the ire of most anyone, regardless of affiliation. Remember that this was synchronous to the furor created by the questionable pardons, amid allegations of a stolen election, and shortly after the impeachment. The quest for fuel for the fire lowered the boiling point of pretty much any issue. ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/45 "2004-02-20T00:11:33Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I appreciate your consistancy, **porkchop**. So many people hold one guy responsible for everything under them, but give the guy from other party a pass on everything. Well, thank you, Rev. People do tend to see things in us versus them, but I try, at least, to be consistent. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/46 "2004-02-20T02:02:55Z")
C’mon. Don’t be childish. Even the White House Press Office admitted the “vandalism” stories were all made up within a couple months. It was, is and will always be a political hack job by weirdo extremists. (Even the right wingers are moving to distance themselves form these folk.) What you are seeing now are people how rephrase “wear and tear” into “damage” into “deliberate damage” into “vandalism”. That’s a lot of “spin” if you ask me. Geez, my own little house has probably had $2000 worth of wear and tear in the last 8 years and I’d me arrested if I tried to report it as “vandalism” to the police. Just because Big Lies are repeated over and over doesn’t make them true. ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/47 "2004-02-20T02:09:40Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > C’mon. Don’t be childish. Even the White House Press Office admitted the “vandalism” stories were all made up within a couple months. Really. You didn’t read that GAO link, did you? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/48 "2004-02-20T02:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > That said, looking at the GAO report, the issue isn’t the cost of the damage, it’s the vulgarity and hatred shown by the vandals who acted like junior high-schoolers rather than professionals in the most important office in the country. This is the heart of the issue. I thought that removing the W’s was funny and fairly harmless, but some of the other stuff (like the vandalism and the photoshopped pictures of Dubya) was just spiteful and disrespectful. No one likes a sore loser. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/49 "2004-02-20T02:57:49Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] I didn’t say that Bush whined. I said that someone in his White House did, and Ari Fleischer [fueled it](http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/05/23/vandals/index.html). from the article: > [@](#): > > Fleischer downplayed the seriousness of the supposed damage [John Stewart] Damn you Ari Fleischer for fueling these false reports by… downplaying… them you… (looks at camera above him) KAHNNNNNNNNNNN!!! [/John Stewart] But seriously it seems like he wanted to move on and did not want to give specifics about the damage. The press just wouldn’t let it go and thats why he came across as coy. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/50 "2004-02-20T03:07:52Z")
> [@treis](#): > > [John Stewart] Damn you Ari Fleischer for fueling these false reports by… downplaying… them you… (looks at camera above him) KAHNNNNNNNNNNN!!! [/John Stewart] > > But seriously it seems like he wanted to move on and did not want to give specifics about the damage. The press just wouldn’t let it go and thats why he came across as coy. Had Fleischer said in response to the questioning “Look, there is no story here and I’m not taking any more questions on it” then I would agree with you. But he didn’t do anything to kill the story and, yes, feuled it by raising the issue of “cut wires” where it hadn’t been an issue before. ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/51 "2004-02-20T14:12:44Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Had Fleischer said in response to the questioning “Look, there is no story here and I’m not taking any more questions on it” then I would agree with you. But he didn’t do anything to kill the story and, yes, feuled it by raising the issue of “cut wires” where it hadn’t been an issue before. Oh yeah, that worked so well when Clinton announced there was nothing to the intern story - the press backed right off, didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/52 "2004-02-20T14:51:24Z")
> [@porkchop\_d\_clown](#): > > Oh yeah, that worked so well when Clinton announced there was nothing to the intern story - the press backed right off, didn’t they? There’s a difference between deflecting accusations and refraining from _making_ accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/53 "2004-02-20T16:04:59Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Previous Bush staffers did the same thing… General Questions is a forum for statements of fact. Please produce evidence that previous Bush staffers committed acts of vandalism before Clinton took office. Or withdraw the statement. > [@ftg](#): > > C’mon. Don’t be childish. Even the White House Press Office admitted the “vandalism” stories were all made up within a couple months. It was, is and will always be a political hack job by weirdo extremists. Both claims made here are false. The General Accounting Office report stated specifically that Clinton staffers had committed deliberate acts of vandalism before leaving the White House. The White House press office has never admitted that the vandalism stories were all made up. Just the opposite - the GAO established that they were definitely true. The “weirdo extremists” are the ones attempting to pretend that it didn’t happen. It did happen. It was proven to have happened. Anyone who denies that it happened is mistaken or lying, or a member of the tin foil hat brigade. I repeat, the answer to the question of the title is an unequivocal Yes. Bush and Fleischer attempted to downplay it. People such as Al Franken who deny that it happened are lying. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/54 "2004-02-20T18:55:25Z")
> [@porkchop\_d\_clown](#): > > Muttrox, > Rather than having everyone repeat their arguments, you really might want to browse the [GAO report](http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02360.pdf). Perhpas you could reread my question and answer it. The question is, what damage, if any, was done during _previous_ transitions. Admittedly, I just skimmed your link but since it is titled 2001, I didn’t think it required a detailed reading. ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/55 "2004-02-21T19:07:21Z")
> [@muttrox](#): > > Perhpas you could reread my question and answer it. The question is, what damage, if any, was done during _previous_ transitions. Admittedly, I just skimmed your link but since it is titled 2001, I didn’t think it required a detailed reading. That’s disappointing since there’s a section that answers your question specifically. It’s also disappointing that you expect me to read to you. ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/56 "2004-02-21T19:10:08Z")
> [@OxyMoron](#): > > Folks, $19K of damage on furnishings in a building the size of the White House is _bupkis_, especially when it appears that a fair bit of the damage was ordinary wear and tear over 8 years. As others have said, the dollar amount really wasn’t the point - I’d expect them to repaint and recarpet and so on between administrations anyway - samething they do for any “rental” property. On the other hand, the _White House_ isn’t just another office building. Smearing graffitti around it is no different from vandalizing the Tower of London, or the Sistine Chapel. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022/57 "2004-02-21T19:44:15Z")
The factual question has long since been answered, so I’ll close this thread. Interpretation of the facts is better suited to the GD forum. bibliophage moderator GQ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sorry-to-dredge-this-up-but-did-clinton-staffers-really-vandalize-the-w-h/230022.md?page=2)