# Sotomayor: Maybe a Racist. Definitely an Egomaniac. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269 "2009-07-16T21:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/81 "2009-07-18T01:04:33Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Your bar for “racist” seems to be apparently FAR lower for a Latina than it is for about any white Republican. Actually, I’ll go on record as saying that if a white Republican ever states the following: “I would hope that a wise white male with the richness of his experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a Latina who hasn’t lived that life.” Or even: “I would hope that a wise white male with the richness of his experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a black man who hasn’t lived that life.” …I will classify it, too, as a racist remark. So now you can substitute actual reality for your apparent one. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/82 "2009-07-18T01:16:09Z")
Saying a" wise latino woman" does not necessarily mean her. If you say a middle class white is likely to be a democrat ,are you talking about you? Are you suggesting she is the only wise latino woman? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/83 "2009-07-18T01:19:51Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Actually, I’ll go on record as saying that if a white Republican ever states the following: > > “I would hope that a wise white male with the richness of his experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a Latina who hasn’t lived that life.” > > Or even: > > “I would hope that a wise white male with the richness of his experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a black man who hasn’t lived that life.” > > …I will classify it, too, as a racist remark. > > So now you can substitute actual reality for your apparent one. Except that Sotomayor was talking about discrimination cases. If there’s a case about anti-male discrimination, then a male justice will be able to understand what happened a little better than Sotomayor would. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/84 "2009-07-18T01:20:02Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Everyone knows the infamous quote by now, so I won’t repeat it. > > Never mind the Latina part, but what kind of conceited gasbag seriously refers to herself as “wise” in a public lecture? I guess you have to _believe_ it in order to function as a judge, but it takes a special kind of person to come right out and _say_ it. Criminy. If I were the Solicitor General, I’d be praying for some kind of scandal to break and ruin her nomination, just so I wouldn’t have to argue cases in front of her. Seriously dude, you right wingers are barely entertaining aht this point. Either come up with real arguments or just admit you’;re being dickheads becausev you don’t want the lefties to win. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/85 "2009-07-18T01:27:19Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Except that Sotomayor was talking about discrimination cases. If there’s a case about anti-male discrimination, then a male justice will be able to understand what happened a little better than Sotomayor would. And my point is that her experience would allow her to better appreciate ONE aspect of the case. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/86 "2009-07-18T01:33:03Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Saying a" wise latino woman" does not necessarily mean her. If you say a middle class white is likely to be a democrat ,are you talking about you? Are you suggesting she is the only wise latino woman? Oh, please. She was using herself as an example. And even if she wasn’t, implying that _any_ wise Latina, or Asian, or African American, or albino, would more often than not reach a _better_ conclusion than a white male is a racist statement. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/87 "2009-07-18T01:37:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > …I will classify it, too, as a racist remark. I will look forward to your implementation of this in practice, on this board. But I’m really looking for, is for you to honestly acknowledge racism from Republicans when it appears, instead of constantly defending it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/88 "2009-07-18T02:00:18Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I will look forward to your implementation of this in practice, on this board. > > But I’m really looking for, is for you to honestly acknowledge racism from Republicans when it appears, instead of constantly defending it. I’m sure I won’t be as quick to attribute someone’s remarks or actions to racism as many on the left. But whether that will be due to a reluctance on my part or a rush to hurl the accusation on the part of others, will probably be difficult to assess objectively. But feel free to send me a PM in the future if you’d like to get my assessment. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/89 "2009-07-18T02:06:05Z")
Holy goddamn fucking shit. **Shodan** , you probably don’t know me from Adam, but I have read a lot of your stuff over the years. I don’t often agree with you politically (though I do from time to time), but I usually can understand and appreciate your thought process. You (typically) seem intellectually honest, and I (typically) respect that about you even when the opinion you’re expressing is something with which I disagree. Sometimes I do think that you deliberately try to tweak the oversensitive on the left. Please say this is one of those times. Please say that you don’t actually believe the silly, unnuanced, interpretation of Sotomayor’s statement that you’re saying here that you believe. Because, look: it is perfectly obvious on even a cursory reading of her speech in its entirety what she is trying to say - that different people, with different experiences, will judge in different ways. She is trying to say that in some cases and in some settings, Person X will have a better, more informed ability to judge than Person Y; and, of course, that in other cases and other settings, Person Y will have a better, more informed ability to judge than Person X. The argument is that because of this, ethnic and gender diversity in the judiciary should be welcomed and encouraged, because people of varying backgrounds will bring strength in varying areas. It’s obvious that this is her intent, and that the reading you’re promulgating was not her intent. Come _on_, man. You’re better than this. Your _party_ is better than this. This is such bullshit - mining someone’s speeches for a sentence that, if you take it completely out of context and ignore the obvious intent underlying it, sounds like something you can convince someone is offensive. What the fuck has happened to the discourse in this country lately? It’s driving me fucking crazy. Come _on_, Shodan. You don’t believe this. You’re not **magellan** , whose grasp on the nuances of the English language roughly approximates that of my five year old daughter; you have to know that this is stupid. And please, please, don’t tell me that the liberals did it to George Bush or whoever the fuck. It was stupid and counterproductive when the left played semantic gotcha games and it’s stupid and counterproductive when the right does it. I mean, fuck _me_, but this stuff is just _so stupid_. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/90 "2009-07-18T02:09:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I have no doubt they are. But some human failings are more serious than others. I don’t see much to choose between this and the kind of stuff my grandmother used to say - “you know what those colored folk are like”. > > Regards, > Shodan Like this, for instance. Come on, you don’t believe this. You’re tweaking, right? You don’t honestly believe that Sotomayor’s statements - taken in context and in their entirety - reflect the same mindset as the stuff your grandmother (and hell, my grandmother and even my father) “used to say?” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/91 "2009-07-18T02:44:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And my point is that her experience would allow her to better appreciate ONE aspect of the case. Which might lead to a better ruling. Which is all she’s saying. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/92 "2009-07-18T03:14:35Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m sure I won’t be as quick to attribute someone’s remarks or actions to racism as many on the left. This is what you leads you to have a lower bar for a Latina than for white GOP guys. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/93 "2009-07-18T03:38:45Z")
A “wise X” will certainly make better decisions, on average, than a “Y.” It isn’t “wise X” versus “wise Y” or, worse, “X” versus “wise Y.” It’s “wise X” versus “Y.” I’m betting on the wise one. For a really freaking long time, our culture has discounted the existence of “wise X,” whether X is women, blacks, Latinos, or anyone who isn’t exactly damned Y. Those of you arguing that she’s wrong are saying that Y, a simple Y is equal to “wise X”–“wise X” is superior to “Y.” And guess what? “Wise Y” is superior to “X.” It doesn’t matter what values you plug into these statements. Wise is better than unwise. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/94 "2009-07-18T19:28:24Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Which might lead to a better ruling. Which is all she’s saying. 1. individual opinion 2. more often than not 3. than a white male I can’t believe anyone is actually trying to defend her words. I can see trying to defend her in spite of those words, but the words are racist and inappropriate for a judge to utter. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/95 "2009-07-18T19:35:08Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > This is what you leads you to have a lower bar for a Latina than for white GOP guys. Let me see if I can parse this. First, here’s what you responded to: [QUOTE=magellan01] I’m sure I won’t be as quick to attribute someone’s remarks or actions to racism as many on the left. [/QUOTE] So, I said that I’d be less reluctant than a person on the left to attribute someone’s (generic) remarks to racism. And from that you deduce that I have a lower bar for a Latina than a white GOP guy. Huh?!?! You’ll have to take me through that logic. How does my having an overall higher threshold to cry “racist” equate with me having a lower bar for Latinas and a higher one for white GOP guys? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/96 "2009-07-18T20:17:53Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Can you blame them? Liberal politics have defined the debate as being whoever can prove the most victimization is the group that should have the most power… They have? Or is that more like the way you phrase it in order to make an effort for justice appear ridiculous? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/97 "2009-07-18T21:23:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > 1. individual opinion > 2. more often than not > 3. than a white male > > I can’t believe anyone is actually trying to defend her words. I can see trying to defend her in spite of those words, but the words are racist and inappropriate for a judge to utter. No, after the hearings even less republicans swallow that. [http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/07/18/2009-07-18\_back\_from\_dc\_hearings\_sonia\_sotomayor\_tells\_news\_shes\_happy\_to\_be\_home.html](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/07/18/2009-07-18_back_from_dc_hearings_sonia_sotomayor_tells_news_shes_happy_to_be_home.html) > [@](#): > > Morgenthau told the Senate Judiciary Committee she is “uniquely qualified” for the Supreme Court because of her “intellect, experience and commitment to the rule of law.” > > Republicans closely questioned her about gun control, abortion, and comments she made about whether being a “wise Latina” makes her a better judge than a white male. > > She answered them again and again with nary a gaffe. > > Sotomayor has overwhelming support among the Senate’s 58 Democrats and two independents - and is even likely to win a number of votes among the 40 Republicans. > > “I am mightily impressed,” conservative Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla. told her as he wrapped up his questioning Thursday. > > Sen. Dick Lugar, R-Ind., announced Friday that he would be voting for Sotomayor. > > “Judge Sotomayor is clearly qualified to serve on the Supreme Court,” Lugar said in a statement. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/98 "2009-07-18T21:48:21Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > No, after the hearings even less republicans swallow that. > > [http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/07/18/2009-07-18\_back\_from\_dc\_hearings\_sonia\_sotomayor\_tells\_news\_shes\_happy\_to\_be\_home.html](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/07/18/2009-07-18_back_from_dc_hearings_sonia_sotomayor_tells_news_shes_happy_to_be_home.html) :rolleyes: Did you really need to post the same thing—which has nothing to do with what I’ve been saying—in two threads? Go read my answer in the other one. And try paying better attention to what I say if you are going to respond to me, please. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/99 "2009-07-18T21:53:48Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > :rolleyes: Did you really need to post the same thing—which has nothing to do with what I’ve been saying—in two threads? Go read my answer in the other one. And try paying better attention to what I say if you are going to respond to me, please. It has nothing to do? :dubious: It shows only that she already defended herself and even some republicans were impressed. So yes, believe it, she and other people will defend her words as it is clear the effort to discredit her is getting silly. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269/100 "2009-07-19T01:41:04Z")
Heck, I’ll defend her words because of this little thing called The First Amendment! Of course, God knows what’ll happen if a bunch of wise Latinas get their hands on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotomayor-maybe-a-racist-definitely-an-egomaniac/503269.md?page=6)