# SOTU says we're the good guys. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636 "2003-01-30T15:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/1 "2003-01-30T15:56:18Z")
Bush’s State of the Union began by taking a moral stance on spending priorities. Notably prescription drug coverage in Medicare, a mentoring program for children of prisoners, and AIDS money for Africa. The last half took a moral stance on Iraq. We don’t want war, but it’s our duty to defend the world against this evil madman. Since Bush is the leader of the United States and the leader of the Republican Party, one underlying message is that America and the Republicans are now the good guys. This contradicts the anti-American critics at home and abroad. And, it contradicts the many Democrats who think that Republicans are not just wrong, but are bad people. E.g., our fellow poster **Consuela Bobuela** who says she would kill any Republican for free if she were guaranteed immunity. She kidding (I assume), but the joke is based on the idea that Republicans are bad guys. So, the question is: Did this work? Do you now consider Americans or Republicans to be “good guys”? Or, if that’s too much, do you consider them a bit less evil than you used to? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/2 "2003-01-30T16:03:21Z")
Sorry, I posted prematurely. I meant to add two things: Lliberal pundit Juan Williams said on TV he was moved by Bush’s domestic agenda. He seemed surprised to see a deep and sincere concern for humanity in the SOTU. Politically, Bush’s approach seems effective. Voters will be more apt to support candidates who praise their morality than candidates who criticize it. Some liberals I know believe that their country or community is immoral, but that they personally rise above the immorality of their neighbors. However, I don’t think this group is a voting majority. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/3 "2003-01-30T16:09:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Lliberal pundit Juan Williams said on TV he was moved by Bush’s domestic agenda. He seemed surprised to see a deep and sincere concern for humanity in the SOTU. I would be more impressed if I thought that Bush had written the SOTU, or at least had instructed his speechwriters what it should discuss and cover. I have the feeling it was the other way around… ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/4 "2003-01-30T16:15:11Z")
When did Juan Williams become a liberal? Sua ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/5 "2003-01-30T16:24:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\*When did Juan Williams become a liberal? \*\* It has been my impression that he was one of the liberal spokespersons on the Fox News _Special Report_ “All Star” panel. Although he doesn’t seem far left, he sounds like someone whose sympathies lay more with Democrats than Republicans. In panel discussions, he generally seems to argue the liberal POV. Do you have a different impression? ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/6 "2003-01-30T16:33:19Z")
Just a little nitpick: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Bush’s State of the Union began by taking a moral stance on spending priorities. Notably prescription drug coverage in Medicare, \*\* Actually, this prescription drug coverage would kick in only if the senior _left_ medicare. > [@](#): > > Advocates of the plan think Medicare’s financial footing would improve dramatically by luring the elderly to privately run plans. But those who stay in the traditional Medicare program wouldn’t have access to the new drug benefits under current versions of the proposal. [http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/5025615.htm](http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/5025615.htm) ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/7 "2003-01-30T16:43:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mack \* > \*\*Just a little nitpick: > > Actually, this prescription drug coverage would kick in only if the senior _left_ medicare. > > [http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/5025615.htm](http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/5025615.htm) \*\* Just a little nitpick nitpick: The prescription drug coverage would kick in if the senior left traditional medicare, meaning (I guess) that s/he would go into non-traditional medicare. Seriously, no proposal has been released, so we don’t exactly what Bush has in mind. One pundit speculated that drug coverage might be offered to those who went into some sort of HMO structure, but that those who choose to remain in the traditional structure might also be able to buy into prescription drug coverage. We’ll have to wait and see what the actual proposal looks like. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/8 "2003-01-30T16:43:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > So, the question is: Did this work? Do you now consider Americans or Republicans to be “good guys”? \*\* Always did. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/9 "2003-01-30T18:37:08Z")
Call me an Argentinian but I never believe a politician making an speech. I never believe them when they are not making an speech either. p.s. SOTUS stands for… ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/10 "2003-01-30T18:53:54Z")
SOTUS = State of the Union Speech (constitutionally mandated summary of what the condition of the country is and what the President proposes to do about it). I’ve never seen it used before **December** ’s OP, but it’s at least as comprehensible an acronym as some of the other ones coined around here. **December** , is it your contention that criticism of the policies of an Administration is incommensurate with being a patriotic American? And if this is the case, how do you justify the Republican stance in the period 1/20/1993-1/20/2001? I personally feel that America, in its freedom and ability to debate and discuss issues and arrive at some manner of consensus thereafter, is one of the great moral forces for good in the world. But it behooves us to move carefully and with great forethought, being a behemoth in world-power terms, to use our power and freedom in ways that benefit our fellow men and women (which may include freeing them from megalomaniac tyrants, from time to time, lest you misinterpret my overall comment). ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/11 "2003-01-30T19:02:32Z")
What does SCROTUMS stand for, then ? ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/12 "2003-01-30T19:44:15Z")
> [@](#): > > So, the question is: Did this work? Do you now consider Americans or Republicans to be “good guys”? Or, if that’s too much, do you consider them a bit less evil than you used to? I never thought they were evil to begin with. As far as the real question, which is, I think: Did Bush’s speech make you, believe any more firmly in the Republicans devotion to the down-trodden, and international understanding, and (dare I say it) “nation-building”? My answer is: Not for a second. The Mentoring program is great, but it’s too expensive at $450 million. It’s not going to happen. The Medicare issue has already been covered here, and once again, it’s not going to happen. I believe that Bush knew that this speech was going to be very widely reported internationally, and he put AIDS funding in his speech as a bone he threw to the international community. Bush, like other Presidents feeds to the polls. AIDS is the biggest concern of the International community. To get them to look favorably upon his Administration, and perhaps back military action in Iraq, Bush conceded AIDS aid. Don’t get me wrong, I think this is needed, and I don’t really give two hoots about the motivation, but it doesn’t make me think the tiger has changed its stripes. Or perhaps I’m too cynical. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/13 "2003-01-30T19:48:22Z")
Dividing the world into Good and Evil is simply a substitute for thought. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/14 "2003-01-30T20:07:01Z")
Pay no attention to Elvis. He’s not With Us. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/15 "2003-01-30T20:11:44Z")
**London Calling** : Shrub Can Really Osculate My Terrible Old Member Sweetly. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/16 "2003-01-30T20:13:44Z")
> [@](#): > > What does SCROTUMS stand for, then ? Supreme Court Review of Official Terminations Under Military Security. Oh, no, I’m sorry, the answer is “ball sack.” ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/17 "2003-01-30T20:14:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*What does SCROTUMS stand for, then ? \*\* …nuts. The SOTUS is a pep talk. It is like the coming years mission statement. This is what the US is going to do. If it works, vote for him. If it doesnt, the US does something else and reviews it on next years SOTUS. Believe it works when it happens. Just believe he’s gonna try it. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/18 "2003-01-30T20:15:28Z")
> [@](#): > > **London Calling** : Shrub Can Really Osculate My Terrible Old Member Sweetly. ::_putting another “No one will believe Poly said this” quote into the file for later._:: Heh, heh, heh. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/19 "2003-01-30T20:18:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Bush’s State of the Union began by taking a moral stance . . . . The last half took a moral stance . . . . > > Did this work? Do you now consider Americans or Republicans to be “good guys”? Or, if that’s too much, do you consider them a bit less evil than you used to? Last question, first, just to get it out of the way: I have never felt that the Republicans were “bad” guys, but that speech confirmed my opinion that Bush is a cynic with demogogic overtones. “Moral stance”? He took political stances on issues that he may feel are appropriate actions, but that he does feel will garner him support in either the domestic or international communities. Between the two purported “moral” stances, he also lied about what was actually driving up the cost of medical care and he, again, attempted to entangle (Christian) religion in the government. I did not think the speech was an extreme example of partisan politics, just a typically lopsided one (from the guy who claimed he was going to be a uniter, not a divider) and I found no sign that he would know a moral issue if it fell on his foot. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636/20 "2003-01-30T20:22:14Z")
> [@](#): > > We don’t want war, but it’s our duty to defend the world against this evil madman. But the Bush Admin. rejected the International Criminal Court. Why isn’t it our duty to support the Rule of Law in international affairs? I lean in favor of attacking Iraq, but it amounts to an act of vigilanteism, which is a poor substitute for what our “duty” truly ought to be. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sotu-says-were-the-good-guys/151636.md?page=2)