Sould we adopt my system of government for America?

Great Debates
41

  1. You need to put your own personal feeling aside for the good of America. In my system people would be educated to to put the good of society above their own personal freedoms. But we would still find a way for people like you to serve others.

  2. The test will continue throughout a person’s life. We want our people to grow with their abilities. It is true there will be a subjective nature to the tests, but as our new system grows we will become better and better at the tests.

  3. People will continue to grow and move into new position as their abilities change. As for people not meeting their requirements, they will be given motivation in other forms than greed.

  4. Their bodies will be processed for organs, food for people/animals, etc.

  5. There will be no time for personal relationship with the 16-hour workdays. People will work with small food/restroom breaks and will then go home to sleep. There will be no free time for relationships.

  6. Perhaps “leader” was a bad word for me to use there would be no leaders. Everyone will be equal, however, there will be some people who need to make decisions for others. Through life-long evaluation we will have the best people making these decisions.

  7. When we take away the rewards for greed people will not be “punished” for helping others. Plus, our education system will help us to teach the value of helping America. And our evaluation system will help us eliminate those who don’t want to help.
    More to come later.

42

This system IS supposed to be for humans right? You weren’t thinking of some other species? Maybe an alien species of insects or something? Just checking.

-XT

43

Hydro is actually in league with the CRAB PEOPLE.

Crab people…
Crab people…
Taste like crab,
Talk like people.

44

Your reply is amusing, but I am going to dinner at the moment so I will reply when I return.

45

The only possible debate here is whether this is the stupidest OP posted in GD. And even that is not a Great Debate.

I see one major flaw with the system and it is that it does not provide for sexual gratification of its citizens. OTOH, if I am guaranteed sex with Sandra Bullock, then I’ll consider it.

46

“Everyone will be equal, however, there will be some people who need to make decisions for others”

hmmmm, where have I heard this before?:rolleyes:

47

#1 will create a generation of totally disfunctional kids.

I mean, worse than the ones we got.

48

Not on my beat will this be enforced, especially Rules 1, 4, 6, and 7.

49

But 2, 3 and 5 are OK? :slight_smile:

I must admit, I do like the Soylent Green idea. There are a few people I think would be better off as chum.

50

Oh, they all offend me, in some way. I just found 1, 4, 6, and 7 most offensive.

51

I find that I am replying to your post in an effort to show you that what you propose cannot possibly exist in any society where humans are a component. At every step you deny the reality of human nature and try to twist it into something else, which you claim, is better for society as a whole. I am trying to show you that if this was ever implemented anywhere it would be the most horrible, brutal, and inhumane society ever to have existed. You have combined the absolute worst possible aspects of a totalitarianism, communism and a fascist state. Then you mix in a little bit of social science which leads you to eugenics and communal raising or the newly engineered members of your society. What you propose is simply abhorrent to anyone who opens their eyes and looks at it. Please open your eyes. I’ll treat each of your points in order as normal.

  1. “Put your own feelings aside…”. Have you ever been exposed to the adoption system in this country? In case you haven’t, there are some people who, for one reason or another, decide to give their child to another family at the time or their birth. They then must be counciled extensively to get over feelings of loss, pain and depression, some never get over them and sue to gain custody back. Some women and girls find that they simply cannot give up the child after it has been born; the loss would be too great. What you are doing is taking every person in this country who wants to have a child and thrusting them into this situation. There is no amount of education, no amount of telling them “to put their own feelings aside” that would make this right. It simply couldn’t happen in any society that was human.

  2. Ok, so as your new system grows and mistakes are made. What happens to them? Do you process their bodies for their organs or do you feed them to other people in some sick cannibalistic soup? Do you send then to “re-education” camps to teach them to be better at what your tests tell you they will be good at? Explain to me how the people in your society are more free when they have your testers telling them which job to take. Tell me how your system is more humane after you have taken the control of a person’s life away from them. Why not simply replace him with a computer which will do his job?

  3. What form of motivation do you use? Perform better or we turn you into soup?

  4. I don’t think I even need to discuss this to show you how unfortunate it is… Do I?

  5. This increases personal freedom how? This fits in with human nature how? How do you plan to convince people to go along with this, or are we back to the soup threat?

  6. The everybody is equal myth is both seductive and popular, but not real. Sure it is wonderful to treat everybody as if they were equal and treating them as equals is both smart and the right thing to do, but that doesn’t make them equal. Some people are better at on thing, some better at two and some are better at everything. You can find examples of it everywhere in real life. Beyond that, there are leaders in real life because someone has to make decisions. The person that makes the decisions is the leader. It may be a single person, it may be a committee it may take whatever form you want, but there is always a top to any society by its very nature. To propose otherwise makes your proposition a scam to make the people at the bottom feel more important, or a society doomed to failure.

  7. How are people “punished” now for helping others? Educating people can make a difference in the way that people perceive society, but not in they way that people fundamentally are. For instance, sex is fun. You cannot stop people from engaging in sex no matter what educational methods you use, nor can you eliminate the millions of other things that people do to have fun. Humans are complex and varied in their tastes and their perceptions. By attempting to eliminate that from their makeup you make them less human, if you succeed at all.

52

I find that I am replying to your post in an effort to show you that what you propose cannot possibly exist in any society where humans are a component. At every step you deny the reality of human nature and try to twist it into something else, which you claim, is better for society as a whole. I am trying to show you that if this was ever implemented anywhere it would be the most horrible, brutal, and inhumane society ever to have existed. You have combined the absolute worst possible aspects of a totalitarianism, communism and a fascist state. Then you mix in a little bit of social science which leads you to eugenics and communal raising or the newly engineered members of your society. What you propose is simply abhorrent to anyone who opens their eyes and looks at it. Please open your eyes. I’ll treat each of your points in order as normal.

  1. “Put your own feelings aside…”. Have you ever been exposed to the adoption system in this country? In case you haven’t, there are some people who, for one reason or another, decide to give their child to another family at the time or their birth. They then must be counciled extensively to get over feelings of loss, pain and depression, some never get over them and sue to gain custody back. Some women and girls find that they simply cannot give up the child after it has been born; the loss would be too great. What you are doing is taking every person in this country who wants to have a child and thrusting them into this situation. There is no amount of education, no amount of telling them “to put their own feelings aside” that would make this right. It simply couldn’t happen in any society that was human.

  2. Ok, so as your new system grows and mistakes are made. What happens to them? Do you process their bodies for their organs or do you feed them to other people in some sick cannibalistic soup? Do you send then to “re-education” camps to teach them to be better at what your tests tell you they will be good at? Explain to me how the people in your society are more free when they have your testers telling them which job to take. Tell me how your system is more humane after you have taken the control of a person’s life away from them. Why not simply replace him with a computer which will do his job?

  3. What form of motivation do you use? Perform better or we turn you into soup?

  4. I don’t think I even need to discuss this to show you how unfortunate it is… Do I?

  5. This increases personal freedom how? This fits in with human nature how? How do you plan to convince people to go along with this, or are we back to the soup threat?

  6. The everybody is equal myth is both seductive and popular, but not real. Sure it is wonderful to treat everybody as if they were equal and treating them as equals is both smart and the right thing to do, but that doesn’t make them equal. Some people are better at on thing, some better at two and some are better at everything. You can find examples of it everywhere in real life. Beyond that, there are leaders in real life because someone has to make decisions. The person that makes the decisions is the leader. It may be a single person, it may be a committee it may take whatever form you want, but there is always a top to any society by its very nature. To propose otherwise makes your proposition a scam to make the people at the bottom feel more important, or a society doomed to failure.

  7. How are people “punished” now for helping others? Educating people can make a difference in the way that people perceive society, but not in they way that people fundamentally are. For instance, sex is fun. You cannot stop people from engaging in sex no matter what educational methods you use, nor can you eliminate the millions of other things that people do to have fun. Humans are complex and varied in their tastes and their perceptions. By attempting to eliminate that from their makeup you make them less human, if you succeed at all.

53

Sorry about the double post. Could a moderator please remove the duplicate.

54

A good part of these feeeling are caused by society. We will condition the woman not to care about their babies. We can also give the woman drugs to help them through the process.

I am not totally sure how feeding humans to other humans works from a safety standpoint, but the doctors can help us decide this issue. But what is so wrong with eating another person. I hope whn I buy my body can be used to help my fellow America, I am sorry you don’t want to help people. However this is a last resort. We will absolutly send them to re-education if they need it. We don’t want to process a body until it is necessary.

More to come.

55

I hope whn I buy my body = I hope when I die my body

56

  1. Yes, a portion of the reason that women and men cannot give up children is societal influence. I want to know, however, if you see the contradiction that you are perpetrating here? In your brave new world, we are supposed to care about our fellow citizens and work 16 hours a week to support each other, but at the same time we will forcibly kidnap their children, deny them the loving relationship that is best for both parents and child and then drug them if they protest too loudly. All the while we will be brainwashing them into thinking it is justifiable to do so. You espouse principles to be followed and then propose a course of action that is so counter to those same principles that you aren’t even playing the same game anymore, let alone playing on the same field. Look, what possible reason could you have to remove a child from his parents? And don’t you dare tell me that raising them communally will be a benefit to the child and parent, since this has been shown time and time again to be false. Children in homes with strong parental influences get into less trouble, they are more focused in school and athletics, they develop better and are better adjusted socially than children who have little parental interaction. To top that off, children who are raised in a communal manner (like those in adoption homes) are worse than those who are raised in homes with weak parental influences.

  2. Well, from a medical perspective cannibalism is a no-no. There are several diseases that can be transmitted in that manner. From a social perspective, in a society that is trying to uphold high standards in interpersonal relationships it is generally not a good idea if one or both parties start thinking that they may be having the other party for dinner in the next couple of days (and not in that get together and play pictionary way). From a nutritional perspective, there are many other sources of protein that are more efficient, more plentiful and easier to acquire. From a religious perspective this is taboo so strong that most people can’t even make them think about it. From a historical perspective, entire cultures have been wiped from the face of the earth because they engaged in this practice on a small, ritualistic level. Shall I continue?

Face it. Not a single of the 7 points that you have brought up have a gain significant enough to offset the negatives that come with it. When next you post a reply, will you consider the points that you have failed to deal with from my previous 2 posts and then, maybe, provide the reasoning you use to perpetrate this on the rest of us… Please.

57

Religion will be removed.

58

Maybe because they are looked down? My system lets all babies start equal. I am willing to bet that you and your children have a better life than most right now. If you could see past your greed you would see that you are hurting your fellow Americans. Hopefully, one day the whole world will be under my system. And everyone will be equal.

59

  1. No, the children don’t have a harder time simply because they are looked down on. They have a harder time because the people charged with their care don’t have as personal an interest in children not their own. They have a harder time because they are in a less stable environment, they have a harder time because they have less attention due to the ratio of adult supervisor to child, and they have a harder time because they don’t have a father or mother and those connections are important. You say that you provide an equal start to all children, but YOU CAN’T DO THAT. There is nothing that you can do to level the playing field and if you could, this wouldn’t be it (as previously mentioned, a loving family is best for the child). Life is unfair, and nothing that you or I can do will ever completely eliminate that. If I were you I would instead bend my efforts to seeing that every child had a loving nuclear family to support him/her (another impossibility, but a much better one).

  2. Ok, assume that I give you this one (I won’t, but assume so for the sake of argument). That still leaves 4 other perspectives all of which say that this is, not just a bad idea, but a horrible one. Religious objections aren’t even the most interesting though, predictably, they were the most focused on. Really, the most interesting objection is the social perspective objection which says it is hard to have a working, social interaction with your food.

Additionally, I would like to add that I have been very restrained in my arguments up to this point. I have refrained from bringing this highly hypothetical academic exercise down to a personal level. I would appreciate it if you would be equally refrained in your arguments. My greed, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with my rejection of you proposed corrections. All of my rejections have been based upon the ability of your proposal to work in real life. If you aren’t concerned with real life, please provide a scenario that you wish to consider for your proposed changes. As for my baby, he may or may not have a better life than most right now, it depends on your definition of better. Materially, he is getting the short end of the stick, since I am in grad school right now and still living the life of a poor college student. In other ways, I would have to agree.

60

Oh, great! Now you’ve got me thinking about Sandra Bullock. Well, gotta go spank the fish…

Oh crap, is spanking the fish allowed in the new society?