# Source of a "hearts and minds" quote **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 20, 2007, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530 "2007-07-20T12:38:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![prefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3be4f8/32.png) [@prefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/prefect)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/1 "2007-07-20T12:38:23Z")
There’s a quote that goes something like “when you’ve got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow”. I’ve seen it attributed to Lyndon Johnson, Chuck Colson, and John Wayne (which I doubt). My Google powers are proving useless today – does anyone know the actual source of this quote? Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/2 "2007-07-20T14:58:05Z")
No help on the actual quote’s origin except I can help zoom in on a potential time frame unless it’s from literature and thus much older. I do recall hearing it (the OP quote) in the Vietnam era when another such quote (maybe paraphrased) was: “Come let us reason together – or we’ll burn down your village.” Another was used as a recruiting slogan: “Join the Army (maybe Marines) and see the world. Meet interesting people…and kill them.” It was also at the same rough time as this riddle: What do you have when you hold two green fuzzy balls in your hand? Kermit The Frog’s undivided attention. I’d wager the effect was based on the OP quote. ---
**Author:** ![wayward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a87d85/32.png) [@wayward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wayward)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/3 "2007-07-20T15:12:31Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] Another was used as a recruiting slogan: “Join the Army (maybe Marines) and see the world. Meet interesting people…and kill them.” [/QUOTE] Isn’t that a line from Joker in Full Metal Jacket? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/4 "2007-07-20T15:34:14Z")
Johnson visited Viet Nam in late 1966. He gave a speech to the extent that we should be trying to win the hearts and minds of the populace. While the actually saying “…by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow” sounds like Johnson, there has never been found any evidence that he originated it. The earliest we’ve been able to find in print is 1967, a column by Jack Anderson, in which he talks about some Navy fliers who said that > [@](#): > > After the Presidential visit, related one > of the fliers, Navy crews had painted this > slogan on some fighter-bombers: “Grab 'em > by the throat The hearts and minds will > follow.” . And I have no doubt the word “balls” was mispelled in that article as “throat.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/5 "2007-07-20T15:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=wayward] Isn’t that a line from Joker in Full Metal Jacket? [/QUOTE] I saw that! Joker in Apocalypse Now :smack: . > [@](#): > > JOKER > I wanted to see exotic Vietnam, the jewel of Southeast Asia. > I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture and … kill them. > I wanted to be the first kid > on my block to get a confirmed kill. The Watergate source is Charles “Chuck” Colson. In “All the Presidents Men” reference is made to the phrase being in a cartoon on Colson’s wall. Which is supported/contradicted by this, > [@](#): > > The just-published and usually stunningly good Yale Book of Quotations includes this saying but slips up on dating, giving as its earliest source Stanley Karnow, Vietnam: A History (1972), which book was actually not published until 1983. The earliest I find in ProQuest Historical Newspapers is the following: > In the den of his Tudor-style home on two wooded acres in McLean, Va., he [Chuck Colson] tacked up a plaque with a Green Beret slogan: “When you’ve got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.” > Los Angeles Times, 4 June 1974[RIGHT][CITE](http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0610A&L=ads-l&D=1&P=18111)[/RIGHT] CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/6 "2007-07-20T15:38:25Z")
[QUOTE=wayward] Isn’t that a line from Joker in Full Metal Jacket? [/QUOTE] Might just be, but I saw posters with that slogan on them (probably produced by anti-war type) in real life. FMJ does sound right but it could as easily have been _Platoon_ or _Apocalypse Now_ for all I know. I was mainly trying to pin down the time the phrase probably comes from. And, as I said before, it might even be as old as a WWII (or earlier) film or book. It does at least sound military in origin. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/7 "2007-07-20T15:57:10Z")
I first saw something like “travel to exotic places, meet the natives…and kill them” on a Paul Krassner poster in _The Realist_, ca. 1962-1965, the earliest reference I can think of. I think he was parodying military recruitment posters which began about the same way. And there’s a variation on **Zeldar’s** riddle, “What do you have if there’s a large green ball in each hand?” The Jolly Green Giant right where you want him. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/8 "2007-07-20T16:03:46Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Johnson visited Viet Nam in late 1966. He gave a speech to the extent that we should be trying to win the hearts and minds of the populace. While the actually saying “…by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow” sounds like Johnson, there has never been found any evidence that he originated it. The earliest we’ve been able to find in print is 1967, a column by Jack Anderson, in which he talks about some Navy fliers who said that . And I have no doubt the word “balls” was mispelled in that article as “throat.” 🙂 [/QUOTE] Just to clear up any confusion, I just found this cite in the last hour, using Newspaperarchive. Previously, the Colson connection was the earliest. ---
**Author:** ![prefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3be4f8/32.png) [@prefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/prefect)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/9 "2007-07-20T19:02:12Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Just to clear up any confusion, I just found this cite in the last hour, using Newspaperarchive. Previously, the Colson connection was the earliest. [/QUOTE] Thanks so much for the help – you guys are awesome. This was driving me crazy. ---
**Author:** ![creatorofthekyunn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@creatorofthekyunn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/creatorofthekyunn)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/10 "2013-03-05T20:16:12Z")
As far as i’m aware General Westmoreland said this quote… but i cannot use it in my school assessment as there is nothing on the internet proving this… ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/11 "2013-03-06T01:11:53Z")
> [@](#): > > “Join the Army (maybe Marines) and see the world. Meet interesting people…and kill them.” > [@wayward](#): > > Isn’t that a line from Joker in Full Metal Jacket? I don’t think that is the source. I am pretty sure I heard it long (like, ten years, or more) before that movie came out. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/12 "2013-03-06T01:22:12Z")
When you’ve got zombies by the balls, their hearts and BRAAAAAINS will follow. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/13 "2013-03-06T04:39:51Z")
> [@creatorofthekyunn](#): > > As far as i’m aware General Westmoreland said this quote… but i cannot use it in my school assessment as there is nothing on the internet proving this… Indeed: any statement which has actually made it onto the internet may be taken as possessing the last full measure of vindicated truth. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/14 "2013-03-06T05:02:56Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Another was used as a recruiting slogan: “Join the Army (maybe Marines) and see the world. Meet interesting people…and kill them.” Still[available](http://www.northernsun.com/images/imagethumb/Join-The-Army-Bumper-Sticker-(5711).jpg) as a bumper sticker – $2.50. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/15 "2013-03-06T18:10:14Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > No help on the actual quote’s origin except I can help zoom in on a potential time frame unless it’s from literature and thus much older. I do recall hearing it (the OP quote) in the Vietnam era when another such quote (maybe paraphrased) was: “Come let us reason together – or we’ll burn down your village.”… That was also a paraphrase of LBJ, who was fond of quoting Isaiah 1:18. [http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/archives.hom/faqs/Religion/religion\_hm.asp](http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/archives.hom/faqs/Religion/religion_hm.asp) > **[Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 1:18 - King James Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%201:18&version=KJV)** > > Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/16 "2013-03-06T20:04:05Z")
> [@creatorofthekyunn](#): > > As far as I’m aware General Westmoreland said this quote… but i cannot use it in my school assessment as there is nothing on the internet proving this… I agree. I think it was Westmoreland. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/17 "2013-03-06T20:32:50Z")
The OP’s quote is very (LB) Johnsonian, so that would make sense. [Here’s a 1968 article](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=74wbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TlEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4881,2141087) about Westmoreland saying “win their hearts and minds,” which is a little different. ---
**Author:** ![atcarlu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atcarlu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atcarlu)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/18 "2017-04-30T21:20:52Z")
This is a quotation from the Holy Bible. Jesus spoke these words to the elders in the temple, and everyone was amazed at the wisdom of a boy who was just twelve years old… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/19 "2017-05-01T00:57:47Z")
Welcome, **atcarlu**. Could you provide a citation for us? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530/20 "2017-05-01T01:07:55Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I don’t think that is the source. I am pretty sure I heard it long (like, ten years, or more) before that movie came out. I saw it around 1977 on a Vietnam Veterans Against the War poster. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-a-hearts-and-minds-quote/412530.md?page=2)