# Source of the melody of this Irish song from the American Civil War? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808 "2014-03-29T01:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/1 "2014-03-29T01:46:46Z")
We all know Irish immigrants fought in the Civil War . . . I did not appreciate until recently that [they fought for both sides](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Americans_in_the_American_Civil_War#Irish_service_to_the_Union), though more of them for the Union than the Confederacy – I guess they mostly just aligned with their neighbors, and the North had always been more attractive to immigrants than the South, so more Irish settled there. Anyway, recently, doing the YouTube equivalent of a [Wiki Walk,](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WikiWalk) I came across several Irish war-songs from the Civil War that I’d never heard before. Most of them have melodies derived from other songs (wartime, things get rushed, adding new lyrics to a known song is easier than writing a whole new one), e.g.: UNION: [“The Irish Volunteer”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yavz9rzaOSY) – [lyrics](http://martindardis.com/irish_volunteers_lyrics_guitar_chords.html) – melody appears to be from “The Bonnie Blue Flag,” but, actually, both songs’ melodies come originally from an Irish-Irish song, [“The Irish Jaunting Car.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FU9OACm284) [“We’ll Fight for Uncle Sam”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQL_EQi3M3o) – [lyrics](http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/h?ammem/amss:@field(DOCID+@lit(sb40551a))) – melody is from another Irish-Irish song, [“Whiskey in the Jar.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eOIU9ekSMk) [“The Fighting 69th”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWvdf_51Iq0) – [lyrics](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/dropkickmurphys/fighting69thtraditional.html) – TTTO another Irish-Irish song, [“The Star of the County Down.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEt2XdN_TbQ) CONFEDERATE: [“The Irish Brigade”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Yr3BsEw6A) or “Kelly’s Irish Brigade” – [lyrics](http://martindardis.com/kellys_irish_brigade.html) – I don’t know the source of the melody, would like to know it; but, it’s this other one I started this thread to ask about: [“Song of the Irish Brigade”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SACko0kBunY) or “Irish Soldiers” – [lyrics](http://www.legacy-america.net/national-heritage/song-of-the-irish-brigade-confederate/) – and since there can be no question of copyright, I hope, I will C&P the whole lyrics here – but only hearing the song can convey the impact! Oh, not now for songs of a nation’s wrongs, not the groans of starving labor; Let the rifle ring and the bullet sing to the clash of the flashing sabre! There are Irish ranks on the tented banks of Columbia’s guarded ocean; And an iron clank from flank to flank tells of armed men in motion. And frank souls there clear true and bare To all, as the steel beside them, Can love or hate with the the strength of Fate, Till the grave of the valiant hide them. Each seems to be mailed Ard Righ, whose sword’s avenging glory Must light the fight and smite for Right, Like Brian’s in olden story! With pale affright and panic flight Shall dastard Yankees base and hollow, Hear a Celtic race, from their battle place, Charge to the shout of “Faugh-a-ballaugh!” By the souls above, by the land we love Her tears bleeding patience The sledge is wrought that shall smash to naught The brazen liar of nations. The Irish green shall again be seen as our Irish fathers bore it, A burning wind from the South behind, and the Yankee rout before it! O’Neil’s red hand shall purge the land- Rain a fire on men and cattle, Till the Lincoln snakes in their own cold lakes Plunge from the blaze of battle. The knaves that rest on Columbia’s breast, and the voice of true men stifle; we’ll exorcise from the rescued prize- Our talisman, the rifle; For a tyrant’s life a bowie knife!- Of Union knot dissolvers, The best we ken are stalwart men, Columbiads\* and revolvers! Whoe’er shall march by triumphal arch Whoe’er may swell the slaughter, Our drums shall roll from the Capitol O’er Potomac’s fateful water! Rise, bleeding ghosts, to the Lord of Hosts For judgment final and solemn; Your fanatic horde to the edge of the sword Is doomed line, square, and column! :eek: Wow! Just ,wow! That is not only the most richly poetic and lyrical Civil War song I have ever heard, it is the most **warlike** song I have ever heard from **any** war! I mean, seriously, by comparison the Waffen-SS’ [“Seig Heil Viktoria”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4AF1r0NjiA) is for pacifist pussies and “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” might as well be “Kumbayah!” But where’s the melody come from? - “Columbiad” is a kind of cannon. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/2 "2014-03-29T02:07:11Z")
I really recognize the melody of “The Irish Brigade” - it’s definitely from an Irish folk song, but I can’t quite name it . . . that’s going to drive me insane now. 😃 But for the other one, is it necessarily borrowed? It’s more of a lyrical song than a melodic one, so it wouldn’t make sense to use it as a base (not that I’m an expert in re-writing songs or anything, but it seems like you’d use a catchy tune - and if the source song’s words are as intricate as the one here, it would be quite a job to re-write). Are you sure it’s not just an original? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/3 "2014-03-29T02:21:01Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > But for the other one, is it necessarily borrowed? No, not necessarily, but, going by the others, probably. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/4 "2014-03-29T02:28:09Z")
I think I got the first one - [“Rosin’ The Bow.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivWUFueNLs) As for the second, I’ll keep looking. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/5 "2014-03-29T02:39:20Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > I think I got the first one - [“Rosin’ The Bow.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivWUFueNLs) As for the second, I’ll keep looking. Described as an “Irish Drinking Song.” I am reminded of an old _Hagar the Horrible_ toon: VIKINGS: Drink, drink, drink, drink! Drink, drink, drink, drink! Drink, drink, drink, drink! HAGAR: You just can’t beat those old Viking drinking songs! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/6 "2014-03-29T02:45:58Z")
The melody of _ **The Irish Brigade** _ is the same as in **this song** : > **[roisinthebow](https://www.ireland-information.com/irishmusic/roisinthebow.shtml)** > > roisinthebow ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/7 "2014-03-29T02:46:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Described as an “Irish Drinking Song.” > > I am reminded of an old _Hagar the Horrible_ toon: > > VIKINGS: Drink, drink, drink, drink! > Drink, drink, drink, drink! > Drink, drink, drink, drink! > > HAGAR: You just can’t beat those old Viking drinking songs! Actually, on the Youtube page of the song, there were a few more drinking songs on the right hand “similar videos” bar - including “F\*\*\* you, I’m drunk,” and “Beer, Beer, Beer.” It reminds me of the Dwarfs in Terry Pratchett’s Discworld novels - all the lyrics to their songs are “gold, gold, gold.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/8 "2014-03-29T02:52:44Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Actually, on the Youtube page of the song, there were a few more drinking songs on the right hand “similar videos” bar - including “F\*\*\* you, I’m drunk,” and “Beer, Beer, Beer.” It reminds me of the Dwarfs in Terry Pratchett’s Discworld novels - all the lyrics to their songs are “gold, gold, gold.” 😃 From Terry Pratchett’s _Soul Music,_ IIRC: “Tell me, is it true that dwarves love gold?” “No.” “Oh.” “We just say that to get it into bed.” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/9 "2014-03-29T02:58:50Z")
It says at the bottom of the lyrics for _ **The Song of the Irish Brigade** _ that “Faugh-a-ballaugh” [sic] is Gaelic for “Clear the way.” > **[Faugh A Ballagh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faugh_A_Ballagh)** > > Faugh a ballagh (/ˌfɔːx ə ˈbæləx/ FAWKH ə BAL-əkh; also written Faugh an beallach) is a battle cry of Irish origin, meaning "clear the way". The spelling is an 18th-century anglicization of the Irish language phrase Fág an bealach \[ˈfˠaːɡ ə ˈbʲalˠəx\], also written Fág a' bealach. Its first recorded use as a regimental motto was by the 87th (Prince of Wales's Irish) Regiment of Foot (who later became the Royal Irish Fusiliers) in 1798. It remains the motto of the Royal Irish Regiment today. > I... ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/10 "2014-03-29T03:12:06Z")
Here is _ **Faugh-a-Ballagh** _ on YouTube, but the melody sounds different to me. https://www.youtube.com/embed/v2zCnqIxIZ4?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=HL1396062594 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/11 "2014-03-29T03:13:17Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > It says at the bottom of the lyrics for _ **The Song of the Irish Brigade** _ that “Faugh-a-ballaugh” [sic] is Gaelic for “Clear the way.” > > [Faugh A Ballagh - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faugh_A_Ballagh) I recall from one of David Letterman’s “Top 10” lists – “The Top Ten Things Seen at the St. Patrick’s Day Parade”: “I saw Ellen DeGeneres and Anne Heche practicing their Gaelic.” From the same list: “You can get your personal effects back at the station, Monsignor.” ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/12 "2014-03-29T03:17:38Z")
So I’ve been looking around on the web, and there’s not much about “Song of the Irish Brigade” - apparently the version you listened to was made by a guy called David Kincaid, who appears to have made a few albums comprised entirely of Irish American Civil War songs. Some of the melodies had been lost, so he wrote them using the saved lyrics - there’s no specification as to whether “Song of the Irish Brigade” was one of these, but given the fact that the only existing recording is Kincaid’s, I think it’s a safe bet. I agree with you on the lyrics, though - it’s basically all war songs boiled down to their essence. “We’re not going to stand around talking about why we’re right, we’re just going to go out there and kill people!” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/13 "2014-03-29T18:36:24Z")
I’m mobile and can’t post a YouTube link, but if you search for “Wearing of the Green” you’ll find the Irish Volunteer song source. The Irish brigade song had many variants, including one called “Lincoln and Liberty”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/14 "2014-03-29T19:34:51Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m mobile and can’t post a YouTube link, but if you search for “Wearing of the Green” you’ll find the Irish Volunteer song source. > > The Irish brigade song had many variants, including one called “Lincoln and Liberty”. Hm. [“Wearing of the Green”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKnmNll1AbM) has the same melody as [“Rising of the Moon.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0zBlHlnR4Y) ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/15 "2014-03-31T22:05:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Hm. [“Wearing of the Green”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKnmNll1AbM) has the same melody as [“Rising of the Moon.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0zBlHlnR4Y) Whereas “Rosin the Bow”\*, the source melody of “The Irish Brigade”, has also provided us with [Acres of Clams](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKyGOOzXsOA), [Down in the Willow Garden](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_cwpACgVPY), the country hymn [Wreck on the Highway (I Didn’t Hear Nobody Pray)](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ULo8IulFFY), and the the shape-note tune [Sawyer’s Exit](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qwfrw9r-fI). - Sometimes rendered “Rosin, the Beau,” by someone who has never used a stringed instrument. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/16 "2014-03-31T22:28:47Z")
OK, now I’ve got the bug. The melody for “Song of the Irish Brigade” does sound familiar, but I can’t place it, either. The music in the YouTube link in the OP is from the album _[The Irish-American’s Song](http://www.hauntedfieldmusic.com/ias.html)_, which was recorded by David Kincaid for Haunted Field Music. I’ve emailed the publisher asking for more information about the tune. If they get back to me, I’ll report back. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/17 "2014-03-31T23:58:00Z")
The Irish are the people that God mad mad: For all their wars are merry, and all their songs are sad. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/18 "2014-04-01T01:32:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Irish are the people that God mad mad: For all their wars are merry, and all their songs are sad. “History, Stephen said, is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake.” – _Ulysses,_ James Joyce ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/19 "2014-04-01T01:59:38Z")
Hey BrainGlutton, I got yer answer right here: [QUOTE=David Kincaid] Thank you for your note, and for you interest in my music. The lyric for “Song for the Irish Brigade” did not specify a traditional melody, as most of the other lyrics did. Two traditional tunes were actually used, and are not my compositions, but my own arrangement of a song called “Martinmas Time” for the vocal melody, with the instrumental parts being a hornpipe called “The Green Flag.” I am a songwriter, but as a historian I’m just not comfortable writing new tunes for these pieces, and go to great lengths to find tunes that would have existed at the time.I hope that is of some help.Best regards,David Kincaid [/QUOTE] So, it’s a modern arrangement of two traditional tunes. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808/20 "2014-04-05T12:39:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Irish are the people that God mad mad: For all their wars are merry, and all their songs are sad. Well only the Gaels. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-of-the-melody-of-this-irish-song-from-the-american-civil-war/684808.md?page=2)