# Sous Vide Cooking **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028 "2013-01-13T03:32:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/81 "2013-02-24T20:20:05Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > actually the temp is constant. Preheat the oven, preheat the water, toss in the steaks, and then put the big pot in the oven. There may be a couple of degree change while the steak thaws, or while you’re figuring out the right oven temp, size of pot, amount of water in pot, etc. But the point is to get the temp of the water bath to whatever your target is and then leave it there. Natural water convection should avoid any significant temperature variation in the bath. After doing this a couple of times, I just check the water temp after about 30 minutes and if no adjustment necessary then leave it alone until time to take them out. > > If cooking a lot of steaks, then probably want to stir the steaks around quite a bit to ensure they don’t clump together and don’t get the circulation. I had this problem once where some of the steaks were perfect and some undercooked. Since an extra hour or two in the water bath won’t hurt, next time I’d just cook the steaks longer and mix the pot a lot. Not quite the toss 'em in and forget about it for a few hours but pretty close. > > Anyway, it’s a work in progress that i’ll probably fine tune a little bit but the broad strokes are there. Huh. OK, the water stays the same temperature, 128F, but the oven has to be 170F to maintain the water temperature. I don’t understand why this should be the case, but obviously you’ve measured. It seems somewhat likely to me that you’re getting a cooling effect from that uncovered pot; have you experimented with a covered pot? Also, why not thaw the steaks first? That’s gotta make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/82 "2013-02-24T22:04:58Z")
Yep, threw me for a loop the first time. I originally set the oven temp at 130 and then kept raising it up by 5 degrees. There’s a bit of difference between covered and uncovered but I haven’t done it enough yet to tell. It’s easier to keep it uncovered to measure the temp. I haven’t tried an all clad soup pan versus cast iron, so maybe that would conduct better and allow for a lower oven temperature. Thawing the steaks probably would make a small difference but frankly we don’t usually plan that far ahead. I’ve basically pre heated the oven, heated the big pot of water on the stove to 140F, then toss in the steaks and the pot into the oven. check the water temperature to make sure it is stable, and voila sous vide. Good enough for now. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/83 "2013-02-24T22:23:01Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It may kept that way for a long time to slow cook tough meats. > > …but some restaurants will cook steaks sous vide just to rare temperature and then sear then on a grill or pan before serving. So when I order a steak at a restaurant it’s likely that it started cooking hours before I ordered it, and might have been lower-quality meat than it would need to be if it had been cooked to order? If I want Utility Grade beef I might as well go to McDonalds. At least there I know it’s been cooked within the last half hour. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/84 "2013-02-25T00:03:43Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > So when I order a steak at a restaurant it’s likely that it started cooking hours before I ordered it, and might have been lower-quality meat than it would need to be if it had been cooked to order? If I want Utility Grade beef I might as well go to McDonalds. At least there I know it’s been cooked within the last half hour. As far as I know there’s no relationship between a restaurant using sous vide and the quality of meat. They do it for consistency in cooking and to reduce service time, not to my knowledge to use a lower grade of meat. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/85 "2013-02-25T03:04:09Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > As far as I know there’s no relationship between a restaurant using sous vide and the quality of meat. They do it for consistency in cooking and to reduce service time, not to my knowledge to use a lower grade of meat. It doesn’t even make sense why they would. Sous vide does not change a piece of utility grade meat into something palatable as a steak. (But if it did, I’d sure as hell invest in a set-up, although I don’t know where I would even go to get utility grade meat. “Select” is as low a designation as I’ve ever seen at a supermarket.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/86 "2013-02-25T03:20:01Z")
And, furthermore, even if they did, who cares? The final product is all I really care about. Even if they used canner grade beef and it tasted like the best freaking steak I’ve ever had, why should I care? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/87 "2013-02-25T03:23:07Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > As far as I know there’s no relationship between a restaurant using sous vide and the quality of meat. They do it for consistency in cooking and to reduce service time, not to my knowledge to use a lower grade of meat. About all it can do is make a tough cut more tender than it otherwise might be- longer for enzymes to work at a closer to optimal temp and all that. Same basic idea as slow-cooking, only more precisely controlled. Still, substandard meat will remain substandard meat. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/88 "2013-02-25T06:25:48Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Still, substandard meat will remain substandard meat. I’ve asked it before, and have yet to get an answer… From what I understand all beef is graded after slaughter solely via visual inspection; that there are no “prime” cows, that the same herd can yield prime, choice and select, and the difference is only of marbling. I remember reading that the University of Kansas was [working on a method of DNA sequencing beef samples](http://www.beefimprovement.org/proceedings/genetic-prediction-workshop/GPW-CarcassMeritProject-Final.pdf) to breed superior based on the taste of the meat - great steak, here’s the DNA of the cattle that produced that that particular cow. One of the quotes I remember from the news report where I learned about the study was that, even with the best visual grading, the consumer still had a one-in-four chance of getting a mediocre steak. So, has anyone experimented with [the old technique of “larding”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larding#Larding), as featured in _The Joy of Cooking_, and can it be used to “upgrade” choice to prime? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/89 "2013-02-25T15:47:42Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > the consumer still had a one-in-four chance of getting a mediocre steak. You are partly correct that the grading process is visual and relates to the amount of marbling, but it also includes age of the cow. A younger cow gets has more tender meat and gets a higher ranking. But after grading there are simply too many factors that can lead to a quality steak. One of which is the diet of the cow (grass vs corn vs shit). Really great steaks are dry aged for 21 days or more. This process causes some loss of moisture (shrinkage) and takes time, so it has a significant impact on cost. It’s also something that can be done at home that will turn mediocre steak into great steak. Lastly, the methods used to season and cook the steak are essential to turning raw product into beefy goodness. And it doesn’t take much to fuck this up. Using sous vide is probably the most successful way of preventing the most obvious problems. I’m not sure if that answered your question though. > [@gaffa](#): > > So, has anyone experimented with [the old technique of “larding”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larding#Larding), as featured in _The Joy of Cooking_, and can it be used to “upgrade” choice to prime? I’ve used it before, we played around with it in school, and I’ve threaded more than a few things with bacon, but overall I’m not a fan. It’s not a substitute for marbling though, works better with large cuts. A steak without a lot of marbling simple needs a shorter cooking time (unless using sous vide) and a nice pat of [blue cheese butter](http://www.pampasplains.com/recipe/48/). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/90 "2013-02-25T20:58:18Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I’ve asked it before, and have yet to get an answer… > > From what I understand all beef is graded after slaughter solely via visual inspection; that there are no “prime” cows, that the same herd can yield prime, choice and select, and the difference is only of marbling. I remember reading that the University of Kansas was [working on a method of DNA sequencing beef samples](http://www.beefimprovement.org/proceedings/genetic-prediction-workshop/GPW-CarcassMeritProject-Final.pdf) to breed superior based on the taste of the meat - great steak, here’s the DNA of the cattle that produced that that particular cow. One of the quotes I remember from the news report where I learned about the study was that, even with the best visual grading, the consumer still had a one-in-four chance of getting a mediocre steak. > > So, has anyone experimented with [the old technique of “larding”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larding#Larding), as featured in _The Joy of Cooking_, and can it be used to “upgrade” choice to prime? The USDA grading scale is visual, and solely based on intramuscular fat content. That’s why there’s so much to-do about “Angus” \ lately. Since most USDA Prime beef goes to high-end restaurants and a few high-end butcher shops, most people buy Choice or Select steaks at their local grocery store, and putting “Angus” on that same old steak is a way to differentiate one Choice steak from another. My point wasn’t that it would make Select into Prime, but rather that if you got hold of a really lean, tough steak, cooking it sous-vide might make it somewhat more tender, but it wouldn’t transform it into some wonderful steak like they’d serve at a fine restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/91 "2013-02-26T02:41:55Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Since most USDA Prime beef goes to high-end restaurants and a few high-end butcher shops Don’t forget Costco. It varies a bit by location, but most Costcos I’ve been to have at least some Prime beef around. That said, when I look through their Choice, I occasionally find some that looks pretty damned close to Prime to me. Must be just on the cut-off point. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/92 "2013-02-26T16:30:24Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Don’t forget Costco. It varies a bit by location, but most Costcos I’ve been to have at least some Prime beef around. That said, when I look through their Choice, I occasionally find some that looks pretty damned close to Prime to me. Must be just on the cut-off point. My point was that it’s not something you can go get at your local Kroger, Wal-Mart, HEB, Fred Meyer, Safeway, etc… You have to go somewhere special, like a high-end butcher shop, or gourmet food store. My local HEB Central Market has loads of Prime beef available, so I’m not without access. That being said, f\*\*k Costco. I live in a major metropolitan area, and the closest one to me is 13 miles away in BFE in one of the outer suburbs, and the next closest one is 16 miles away. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/93 "2013-02-26T18:18:49Z")
> [@bump](#): > > My point was that it’s not something you can go get … I understood your point. But I wanted to let folks know that if they’re on the hunt for Prime beef, there is one somewhat common nationwide store where you can get it. It’s an easy thing to overlook. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/94 "2013-03-31T08:32:46Z")
I’m in the middle of reading _Modernist Cuisine_, so I decided to bump this thread to answer a few things that I was reminded of: > [@bump](#): > > The USDA grading scale is visual, and solely based on intramuscular fat content. That’s why there’s so much to-do about “Angus” \ lately. Since most USDA Prime beef goes to high-end restaurants and a few high-end butcher shops, most people buy Choice or Select steaks at their local grocery store, and putting “Angus” on that same old steak is a way to differentiate one Choice steak from another. According to the book, “Angus” is mostly bullshit. From Volume 3, page 39: > [@](#): > > Most Angus cattle are black, but some purebred Angus are red. Today, in the United States, one can buy “Certified Angus Beef,” but that certification has little to do genetically with Angus cattle. To qualify for “Certified Angus” status, the animal must merely be 51% black and meet some size tests. Purebred Angus that happen to be red aren’t eligible, and cattle that are genetically not Angus but happen to be black are. The phrase ought to be “Certified Half-Black Cattle Beef”. > [@squeegee](#): > > I see what people mean about starting with already-hot water. My crockpot took nearly 3 hours to come up to 175F. They suggest a cheap rice cooker with a metal pot over a crock pot because of how slowly the crockery comes up to heat. > [@squeegee](#): > > [Green ribs](http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn66/squeegee64/IMG_2587_zpsdfddb4e2.jpg). You can see poor color, but also what the pink interior looked like. From Volume 3, page 165: > [@](#): > > Discoloration is another defect that occasionally crops up when cured meats are cooked. “Greening” is by far the most common variation. It happens when lactic acid bacteria produce hydrogen peroxide as a by-product of their growth. During cooking, hydrogen peroxide reacts with the cured myoglobin pigment, changing it from an appealing rosy color to an unattractive green-gray color (or, on rare occasion, yellow or white). Often when cooking sous vide, this defect doesn’t even become apparent until the meat is taken from the bag and exposed to oxygen, which drives the reaction. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/95 "2013-03-31T15:55:43Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > They suggest a cheap rice cooker with a metal pot over a crock pot because of how slowly the crockery comes up to heat. I priced out rice cookers, and they were a bit expensive for ones large enough to cook a big cut, so I sought alternatives. Instead I got an electric roaster from Target ($17 on clearance!) that I’m very happy with. It’s big enough to sous vide quite a lot of food, and using my outboard sous vide controller, it comes up to temperature in about 15 minutes. I just did a couple racks of spareribs in it, 10 hours at 174F, and they came out awesome. Re the green color - yeah, that’s what some googling told me. I could have seared and eaten those ribs and they’d be fine. Maybe I’ll try it again, but its difficult to get past that initial disturbing appearance. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/96 "2013-04-01T05:21:36Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I priced out rice cookers, and they were a bit expensive for ones large enough to cook a big cut, so I sought alternatives. Instead I got an electric roaster from Target ($17 on clearance!) that I’m very happy with. It’s big enough to sous vide quite a lot of food, and using my outboard sous vide controller, it comes up to temperature in about 15 minutes. I just did a couple racks of spareribs in it, 10 hours at 174F, and they came out awesome. Excellent idea. I’ll look at roasters myself. > [@](#): > > Re the green color - yeah, that’s what some googling told me. I could have seared and eaten those ribs and they’d be fine. Maybe I’ll try it again, but its difficult to get past that initial disturbing appearance. Too Suess for me. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/97 "2013-04-01T05:39:26Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Too Suess for me. Will you eat them on a peg? Will you eat them on one leg? Will you eat them while you beg? Will you eat green ribs and eggs? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/98 "2013-04-25T21:36:20Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’ll just politely disagree and let you guess what I’m actually thinking. Pastrami? ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/99 "2013-04-25T22:10:06Z")
Seeing as you bumped this thread, I’ll add in that I did 72-hour short ribs, more or less [this recipe](http://www.zencancook.com/2012/01/72-hours-sous-vide-short-ribs/) last week, and they were stupidly good. The major difference I made was doing them at 140 degrees, not 144, as Modernist Cuisine and a few other places recommended 140. Highly recommended. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028/100 "2013-04-25T22:24:06Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Seeing as you bumped this thread, I’ll add in that I did 72-hour short ribs, more or less [this recipe](http://www.zencancook.com/2012/01/72-hours-sous-vide-short-ribs/) last week, and they were stupidly good. The major difference I made was doing them at 140 degrees, not 144, as Modernist Cuisine and a few other places recommended 140. Highly recommended. So were they green/blue before searing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sous-vide-cooking/647028.md?page=6)