# South Asian and some Middle East leaders aversion to ties
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [September 29, 2015, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926 "2015-09-29T05:55:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/21 "2015-09-29T18:34:49Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> One also often sees Iranian politicians in a hybrid East-West suit, with a Western-style jacket and a Nehru collar-style shirt, [like this](http://iranelectionwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Manouchehr-Mottaki-300x200.jpg), thus negating the need for a Western imperialist tie.
Thats not a hybrid, thats a fairly typical Iranian businesswear.
Seriously, most people here seem to think thats clothes are “western”, and rhat everyone else wore leaves and hides. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/22 "2015-09-29T18:48:14Z")
> [@AK84](#):
>
> Thats not a hybrid, thats a fairly typical Iranian businesswear.
I don’t dispute that, but the jacket is clearly derived from the Western-style suit. Here’s a [better view](http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/468513088-iranian-foreign-minister-javad-zarif-and-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QZDV6C6UnpOa8peTCx5yaL3kjrph8G8HHUck69EuLLbCz1TLI%2FKfKMSmAC%2FidmsaXQ%3D%3D).
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/23 "2015-09-29T18:51:03Z")
Linky no worky.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/24 "2015-09-29T18:58:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Linky no worky.
My link? [Try this](http://oi60.tinypic.com/2zrjklk.jpg).
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/25 "2015-09-29T18:59:49Z")
That one works, but doesn’t really show what I assume you wanted it to.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/26 "2015-09-29T19:03:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> That one works, but doesn’t really show what I assume you wanted it to.
What do you want to see? The suits worn look identical to Western suits to me.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/27 "2015-09-29T19:06:00Z")
They look like amorphous black coat-type things to me. I see a deep front V like a western suit, but otherwise you can’t see any details in that image.
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### Author:  [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/28 "2015-09-29T19:10:37Z")
Iranians don’t wear ties at the order of the Ayatollah, because it spreads western culture.
As said, Modi’s dress is a sleevless neru jacket.
It’s not a semi-western thing, it’s a cultural dress consistent with their own values.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/29 "2015-09-29T19:25:49Z")
[Here’s a better picture then](http://oi57.tinypic.com/348lf9h.jpg). From left to right: a man in “traditional” Iranian dress, a man in a Western (or South Korean!) suit and a man wearing what I would describe as a Western suit with a Nehru/mandarin-style collar shirt.
I’m no expert on Persian/Iranian traditional dress, so I’m not sure how widely the “traditional” Iranian dress in the photo is worn beyond clerical/religious scholar types (and Iran having the political set-up it does, it is these types of people that are heavily involved in government).
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/30 "2015-09-29T19:30:31Z")
Okay, let’s assume you’re right. For one thing, “traditional dress” is not one look in most countries, any more than jeans and a t-shirt is “traditional dress” in the US. Second, most of the elements of the modern lounge suit are drawn from South Asian (and Iranian/Persian) clothing, which were subsequently adopted in military uniforms. So there’s nothing particularly “Western” about a lounge coat. With matching trousers, Oxford shirt and tie, sure.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/31 "2015-09-29T19:49:14Z")
[Here’s an old photo](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Brooklyn_Museum_-_Persian_Officials_and_Attendants_at_a_Party_with_Sweetmeats_One_of_274_Vintage_Photographs.jpg) of some Persian officials. On the right of the photo one can see some traditional jackets and they have Nehru collars, unlike the suit worn by the Iranian Foreign Minister in the photo (the guy on the right), which is complete with Western-suit style notched lapels, pin-stripes and flower buttonhole.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/32 "2015-09-29T20:14:25Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#):
>
> Iranians don’t wear ties at the order of the Ayatollah, because it spreads western culture.
That’s an interesting fact - I didn’t know the tie was prohibited in Iran by official decree. [Here](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6528881.stm)’s a BBC article on the subject.
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### Author:  [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/33 "2015-09-29T20:22:31Z")
Saw an Iranian movie where this was a plot point.
Dad in the family, a businessman, belongs to the current establishment, and so consequently never wears a tie. His son, the main character, _does_ however wear a tie from time to time, rebel that he is (well relatively speaking). At one point, Sr. confronts Jr. about it, and the son says something like “it’s not about whatcha got here [gestures to the tie area], but about whatcha got here [gestures towards his heart].”
I saw this film in an Iranian cinema back in 2004 or so, I think this was in Esfahan - and I swear to God I have never seen an audience go fucking bananas like that before. Rapturous applause, whistling, shouting, standing ovation, cries of joy - they fucking _loved_ it.
Anyway I’m told the film was banned shortly afterwards.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/34 "2015-09-29T21:55:32Z")
> [@Steken](#):
>
> Saw an Iranian movie where this was a plot point…
That’s quite a reversal of Western convention when the _tie_ is a symbol of non-conformist rebellion!
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### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/35 "2015-09-29T23:33:11Z")
Back in the 19th C. when Western men wore frock coats, the Turks improved it with tailoring and embroidery into what was called a 'Stambouli coat. The steampunkers have understandably revived it.
The Phillipine [barong,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barong_Tagalog#/media/File:Magsaysay_and_Garcia.jpg) a lacy see-through shirt, well-tailored and worn untucked, loses all its fashion points for the tucked-in t-shirt.
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### Author:  [@McDoogins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDoogins)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/36 "2015-09-29T23:44:38Z")
Maybe they don’t want something that looks like a dong hanging on their neck.
I used to hate ties, but they’ve grown on me, bowties have directed that old hate on themselves.
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/37 "2015-09-30T00:28:04Z")
Formal business attire in Asia does not (necessarily) include a tie. It’s just that easy.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-asian-and-some-middle-east-leaders-aversion-to-ties/732926/38 "2015-10-03T00:45:57Z")
An N.P.R. story about Jafar Panahi today mentioned that the Iranian government mandates that only villains can be shown wearing ties in movies.
In the one hand, yeah, it’s censorship. But on the other—it’s a pretty good rule of life. The guy in the tie is probably the bad guy. 😃
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