# South Carolina Democratic primary 2016 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 27, 2016, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-democratic-primary-2016/747281 "2016-02-27T11:26:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-democratic-primary-2016/747281/81 "2016-02-28T21:00:35Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Right, not least because Ronald Reagan with gays and people of color is not Ronald Reagan at all. Reagan refused to do anything or even say anything about AIDS, and he started his campaign with racist dogwhistles in Mississippi. Not to mention that his tenure was terrible for blacks economically, while they did very well under Clinton. That’s not even really the point though. Economically speaking, Obama and Clinton are vastly different. Reagan’s view of government and his desire for acceptable tax rates have repeatedly denied and refused by Obama and Clinton wants to continue the Obama legacy on those matters and others. Don’t even get me started on what Reagan would think about the ACA. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-democratic-primary-2016/747281/82 "2016-02-28T21:12:08Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > OK, you think your narrative has won. It’s not completely over, but the writing is on the wall. … > > … And looking at state legislatures and how to change them. … > > … You do realize that you will just push back every progressive economic cause in the country by four years? OK, fine, that’s democracy. We’ll take our time. … > > … We have to work harder. We are not there yet, but the future of the progressive movement, and what that means, is tied up in this, unfortunately. I fight on. A bit melodramatic of a death scene I must say. THAT SAID, 🙂 Yes, work on state legislatures! And congressional seats! Build an actual movement. And meanwhile appreciate what Bernie, assuming he loses, has accomplished. It is not insignificant. He _has_ shifted the Overton window some. “Socialist” is not quite as toxic as it was and the EU models of social democracy are much more acceptable as part of the Democratic conversation. Hillary has overtly endorsed quite a few progressive concepts. Assuming she wins the nomination then work to get her in and work with Bernie to holding her to it, and to enabling them to happen despite an obstructionist Congress. Is the Progressive movement a cult of personality? Does the revolution of which Sanders speaks, people marching on Washington, phoning their Congressional representatives, require him in the White House? No question that the final destination you want to get to and the one I want to get to are not the exact same spot. But they _are_ right now in _the same direction_. I readily admit that I perceive many Sanders supporters as self-serving privileged White Millennials a bit panicked that the system is no longer rigged in a way that includes them. _Now_ it’s important to address it and to do it all right away. And if what is to be done does not give them all of what _they_ want _now_ then they don’t particularly care what happens to all the various others who have been dealing a system rigged against them forever. Maybe I am wrong, but then I hear Sanders supporter wishing Trump or Rubio or Cruz upon us … ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-democratic-primary-2016/747281/83 "2016-02-28T21:38:23Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I know this isn’t exactly what you meant, but that sums me up pretty well. Remove the religious intolerance, the hatred towards homosexuality and minorities, and the complete obliviousness to economic realities re: taxation and the social safety net and I would be a Republican (and have been in the not-so-distant past). Well, it’s the fiscal issue, or “economic realities re: taxation and the social safety net” to which I refer. Clintonism is really squishy on that stuff. I think the party would be stronger with a more New Dealer stance on poverty & labor economics. Reagan had good points personally, outside his fiscal fantasies. (Well, a couple of good points; he had a lot of other issues he got wrong, too.) I can see what you mean. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I think calling Obama or Clinton as “just like Reagan but with gays and colored folks” is an absolutely ridiculous point of view that doesn’t come close to representing reality. That may be one reason why its hard to take the far left seriously. They don’t seem to live in the same reality the rest of us do. Fair enough. The DLC Dems haven’t completely embraced supply-side economics yet. That said, they do tend toward a political economy of bubble creation, with low wages. Getting Hillary to support even a $12 minimum wage was like pulling teeth. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-democratic-primary-2016/747281/84 "2016-02-28T22:55:07Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > That’s not even really the point though. Economically speaking, Obama and Clinton are vastly different. Reagan’s view of government and his desire for acceptable tax rates have repeatedly denied and refused by Obama and Clinton wants to continue the Obama legacy on those matters and others. Don’t even get me started on what Reagan would think about the ACA. Obama and Clinton? Typo? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-democratic-primary-2016/747281/85 "2016-02-28T23:09:10Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Fair enough. The DLC Dems haven’t completely embraced supply-side economics yet. That said, they do tend toward a political economy of bubble creation, with low wages. Getting Hillary to support even a $12 minimum wage was like pulling teeth. This does not jive at all with my memory – what I recall is that the Clintons, and the Democratic party in general, have been in favor of raising the minimum wage for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-democratic-primary-2016/747281/86 "2016-02-28T23:19:43Z")
When the labor movement is saying 15, someone who says 12 is lagging. Can you tell me her reason for that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-democratic-primary-2016/747281/87 "2016-02-28T23:23:18Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > When the labor movement is saying 15, someone who says 12 is lagging. Can you tell me her reason for that? She might have concluded 12 is a more appropriate number. I don’t know – I just recall that the Clintons, and the party in general, has favored raising the minimum wage (if sometimes disagreeing on the best target value) for a long time. Presumably, for those in favor of raising the minimum wage, there’s an ideal minimum wage – one that does the best job of balancing any potential discouragement for businesses to hire while also providing a decent living wage for workers. I don’t know if 12 or 15 or some other number best balances this. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-democratic-primary-2016/747281/88 "2016-02-28T23:35:44Z")
Planet Money assembled something like 25 economists from across the spectrum to judge various presidential candidates’ proposals, and IIRC they couldn’t find any who supported a $15 minimum wage. I think around half of them were for a minimum wage higher than the one we have _now_, but not that high. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-democratic-primary-2016/747281.md?page=4)