# South Carolina priest: No communion for Obama supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632 "2008-11-14T00:27:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/81 "2008-11-14T18:44:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Consider voting for Obama. A person that says, “I’m voting for Barack Obama because I think abortion is a perfectly fine legal choice for women to have,” has, in my view, committed a gravely sinful act. Being pro-choice does not mean being pro-abortion. It just means that you believe that is better that the state not ban abortions, and not that you believe that abortions are a good thing. You may even be pro-choice because you believe that if abortions are legal there will be fewer abortions – yes, that’s a paradox, but it’s not impossible. To take another example, adultery is a mortal sin for Catholics, but do any Catholics think that the state should come in and make it a crime? And should Catholic voters be denied communion because they voted for a known adulterer like Senator McCain? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/82 "2008-11-14T18:46:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And they, when they heard it, began to leave, one by one, beginning from the eldest. But then Jesus picked up a huge stone and killed the woman with a single blow. And Jesus said unto them, “Wait a second - if you think about this, it’s going to be a pretty sorry judicial and penal system that requires all who sit in judgment of the crimes of others to be sinless themselves. It pretty well narrows it down to me and Mom, and, frankly, I’m going to be pretty busy here in a bit.” I was of the impression that this particular part tended to indicate Jesus didn’t _want_ a penal system. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/83 "2008-11-14T18:55:47Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I was of the impression that this particular part tended to indicate Jesus didn’t _want_ a penal system. At least he didn’t appear to want it for the crime of adultery – or he may not have wanted stoning to be part of the penal system. He may have still wanted a penal system for crimes like theft and murder, and he may have been happy with punishments like fines and prison sentences for adultery – you really cannot tell either way from the incident. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/84 "2008-11-14T19:04:57Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Being pro-choice does not mean being pro-abortion. It just means that you believe that is better that the state not ban abortions, and not that you believe that abortions are a good thing. You may even be pro-choice because you believe that if abortions are legal there will be fewer abortions – yes, that’s a paradox, but it’s not impossible. I agree. If a prudential examination of the issue by an informed conscience leads you to that conclusion, then you’re fine. > [@](#): > > To take another example, adultery is a mortal sin for Catholics, but do any Catholics think that the state should come in and make it a crime? And should Catholic voters be denied communion because they voted for a known adulterer like Senator McCain? Here, you’re attempting a weak analogy. While McCain WAS an adulterer, he doesn’t advocate adultery now. This analogy would be appropriate if Obama had in his past procured an abortion, but now stood opposed to it. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/85 "2008-11-14T19:05:11Z")
Back to the OP - my mother attends a Catholic church in Greenville, SC. It’s in a very poor, very run-down part of town, and the congregation is overwhelmingly African-American. I’ll have to ask her if her priest issued a similar statement - somehow, I have a feeling the answer will not only be “no,” but “hell, no.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/86 "2008-11-14T19:06:10Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I was of the impression that this particular part tended to indicate Jesus didn’t _want_ a penal system. Well, in the real story, it indicates the message that justice should be tempered with mercy. There’s a reason that the crime of which the woman stands accused is adultery, not murder or arson. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/87 "2008-11-14T19:11:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here, you’re attempting a weak analogy. While McCain WAS an adulterer, he doesn’t advocate adultery now. This analogy would be appropriate if Obama had in his past procured an abortion, but now stood opposed to it. Obama doesn’t advocate abortions. Obama is being criticized by this priest for something he’s never done or been a part of (as far as we know), and doesn’t directly support. Obama is in favor of a woman’s right to choose; it’s not like he’s pushing for mandatory abortions. Meanwhile, McCain most certainly sinned (according to the Catholics) but he gets a pass\* because he’s not doing it right now (as far as we know). \*not that I think he should be getting hammered over it, but according to the priest’s own logic, he should be. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/88 "2008-11-14T19:13:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, in the real story, it indicates the message that justice should be tempered with mercy. There’s a reason that the crime of which the woman stands accused is adultery, not murder or arson. I suspect i’m probably motivated more by my general understanding of Christianity in my interpretation there, so I don’t think I have any standing to argue the point. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/89 "2008-11-14T19:21:25Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Obama doesn’t advocate abortions. > > Obama is being criticized by this priest for something he’s never done or been a part of (as far as we know), and doesn’t directly support. Obama is in favor of a woman’s right to choose; it’s not like he’s pushing for mandatory abortions. > > Meanwhile, McCain most certainly sinned (according to the Catholics) but he gets a pass\* because he’s not doing it right now (as far as we know). Obama most certainly advocates legal abortions. McCain has not made advocacy for adultery (legal or otherwise) a plank in his platform. And that is a critical distinction in Catholic thinking, yes. Sin in the past we can presume to be repented; an on-going, obstinate refusal to stop sinning is a different story. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/90 "2008-11-14T19:24:25Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I considered myself a Catholic for a long time after realizing I didn’t believe in a Messiah Jesus, son of God. I thought it was a nice enough idea, but not credible. > > Of course, after a number of years of that, I realized that I thought God was a nice enough idea, but not credible. So yeah, maybe these views aren’t compatible with Catholicism. Are you me? ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/91 "2008-11-14T19:43:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Obama most certainly advocates legal abortions. McCain has not made advocacy for adultery (legal or otherwise) a plank in his platform. > > And that is a critical distinction in Catholic thinking, yes. Sin in the past we can presume to be repented; an on-going, obstinate refusal to stop sinning is a different story. How can someone who has performed sinful behavior in the past be “presume(d) to be repented” unless they have actually done so? The fact that one doesn’t continue said sinful behavior might not be because the subject believes it is wrong or has changed his or her ways; it might be a question of opportunity. That is of particular interest in McCain’s (theoretical) case, seeing as he married the woman with which he admittedly committed adultery. What’s the point of repentance if one doesn’t actually need to repent? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/92 "2008-11-14T19:47:24Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Good to see we’ve finally got a pro-war priest! Was it not Jesus that said Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran? Haseth not the scripture proclaim that 100 years in useless war earneth a seat on the trigger hand of the Father? Was it not the Apostle John that said “Fuck the poor, I’m gettin’ my rich on”? This was clearly an election of black vs white! Jesus would have never hung out with those Democrat types, those prostitutes, those poor, those diseased! There is a reason that white suburban churches are the nicest! That a Jesus we can believe in! ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/93 "2008-11-14T19:58:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Obama most certainly advocates legal abortions. He advocates maintaining a woman’s legal right to choose. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/94 "2008-11-14T20:11:25Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Are you me? Busted! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/95 "2008-11-14T20:12:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Obama most certainly advocates legal abortions. There is a difference between advocating that abortion be legal and advocating legal abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/96 "2008-11-14T20:32:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > There is a difference between advocating that abortion be legal and advocating legal abortions. Very valid point. Obama advocates for the legality of abortions. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/97 "2008-11-14T20:33:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There’s a whole lot of space between knocking over tables and carpet bombing villages. Nor does pacifism != total pushover Stand up for the little guy-like I mentioned Oscar Romero, or someone like say, [Hugh O’Flaherty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_O%27Flaherty). Both clergy men, neither were wimps. Also, shouldn’t taking communion and whether you do so or not, and why, shouldn’t that be between you and God and/or your priest? Why should this be a big public thing? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/98 "2008-11-14T20:34:34Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > You may even be pro-choice because you believe that if abortions are legal there will be fewer abortions – yes, that’s a paradox, but it’s not impossible. Well, believing that if abortions are made illegal, there will not be any fewer deaths from abortion, and probably more, is hardly a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/99 "2008-11-14T20:37:39Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > How can someone who has performed sinful behavior in the past be “presume(d) to be repented” unless they have actually done so? The fact that one doesn’t continue said sinful behavior might not be because the subject believes it is wrong or has changed his or her ways; it might be a question of opportunity. That is of particular interest in McCain’s (theoretical) case, seeing as he married the woman with which he admittedly committed adultery. What’s the point of repentance if one doesn’t actually need to repent? Well, he has actually done so: > [@John McCain](#): > > But my marriage’s collapse was attributable to my own selfishness and immaturity more than it was to Vietnam, and I cannot escape blame by pointing a finger at the war. The blame was entirely mine. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632/100 "2008-11-14T20:42:46Z")
Well, in that case we can thus assume that McCain has fulfilled the three main legs of repentance. I didn’t know that he had fulfilled part #1 (acknowledgement of sinful behavior). Support for the war and death penalty, now those are other issues, but it’s good to note that point. Thanks, **Bricker**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-carolina-priest-no-communion-for-obama-supporters/472632.md?page=6)