# South Korean riots over U.S. beef: WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 28, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599 "2008-06-28T21:34:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/1 "2008-06-28T21:34:08Z")
Why are South Koreans violently protesting against U.S. beef? Obviously, if there was anything wrong with U.S. beef, Americans would be dying from mad cow disease, but we’re happily munching our Whoppers. Why are they so crazy over there? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Socks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@Captain\_Socks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Socks)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/2 "2008-06-28T21:36:39Z")
Unrelated tidbit: why are they pelvic thrusting? I saw them on the news, thrusting violently while they are being soaked by police hoses. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/3 "2008-06-28T21:40:25Z")
[QUOTE=DaveRaver] Why are South Koreans violently protesting against U.S. beef? Obviously, if there was anything wrong with U.S. beef, Americans would be dying from mad cow disease, but we’re happily munching our Whoppers. Why are they so crazy over there? [/QUOTE] [Here](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7457087.stm) > [@BBC](#): > > According to a deal agreed by Seoul and Washington in April to allow the beef trade to resume, Seoul agreed to abide by an American BSE inspection scheme. Under this scheme, 1% of US cattle are inspected each year - a proportion protesters claim is too low to offer adequate safety guarantees. > > South Korea has also sent back several shipments of US beef because they contained bone fragments, which are at particular risk of carrying BSE. > > Protesters accuse US beef producers, backed by some lawmakers, of pressing to remove Seoul’s right to send back such beef. > > But there are other areas of concern too. In a country which has hosted tens of thousands of US soldiers since the 1950-53 Korean war, underlying the issues about food sovereignty are long-standing worries about South Korea’s political sovereignty. With regards the inspection regime and returns, I think they have a point. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/4 "2008-06-28T23:02:19Z")
This is one of those cases where 1. BOTH sides may have valid points, and 2. The issues they’re arguing over may not be the REAL issues they care about. The Koreans may have valid health/safety concerns, while ALSO wanting to protect the few domestic beef raisers they have from U.S. competition (the same issues came up in Japan regularly). ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/5 "2008-06-29T07:42:40Z")
**Grey Area** posted his theory in another thread. Here it is: > [@](#): > > This has kind of baffled me too. And to clarify, to call them ‘riots’ would be inaccurate since there is little violence involved. More like large scale demonstrations. > Anyway, I think it’s more to do with the general rejection of President Lee Myung Bak’s many uber-free trade plans, and the FTA deal is at the forefront. The most level-headed answer I can decipher is that a large scale importation will hurt the domestic cattle industry, which is why a lot of farmers are behind it, and also that Koreans eat parts of the cow not consumed by Americans that is more prone to carrying mad cow. For whatever it’s worth, Japan’s agreement with the US has much stricter regulations, which is what the protesters are pushing for. My more cynical answer is that Koreans like to gather in huge droves (e.g. 2002 World Cup) and the general dissatisfaction with the economy and rising prices of gas and goods has manifested in these massive candlelight vigils. Maybe some of the middle-aged folks want to go back to the heyday of protesting of the 80s when they had a (IMHO) real reason to confront the government. Now it’s easier and more fun since they won’t get beaten down and thrown in prison. It’s like a big picnic, but one that feels important. > In S. Korea’s defense, there have been other countries with strikes and protests that are more or less to do with gas prices, and with the FTA deal thrown in, this is the way S. Korea’s reacting. > So the answer is…??? . ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/6 "2008-06-29T08:36:40Z")
People are picky about beef. There’s no evidence that BSE is transmittable to humans (the whole CJD thing seems to have gone quiet) and yet for a long time British beef was about as welcome on the export market as a bacon bap at a bar mitzvah. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/7 "2008-06-29T12:13:28Z")
If you think the protests are about beef, you’ve never encountered South Korean protest culture before. It’s not about beef. It’s about anti-Americanism and anti-Conservatism. The protest organizers are quite upset about their guy not winning the recent presidential election. ---
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/8 "2008-06-29T15:06:04Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] If you think the protests are about beef, you’ve never encountered South Korean protest culture before. It’s not about beef. It’s about anti-Americanism and anti-Conservatism. The protest organizers are quite upset about their guy not winning the recent presidential election. [/QUOTE] Why do South Koreans have a beef with America? We helped them fight North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/9 "2008-06-29T15:32:22Z")
[QUOTE=DaveRaver] Why do South Koreans have a beef with America? We helped them fight North Korea. [/QUOTE] A lot of Koreans believe that there never would have been a North/South Korea in the first place had it not been for the US and the USSR. There is a lot of anti-American sentiment in Korea and it tends to explode every few years. And as **Monty** pointed out, a lot of Koreans are not happy with the current president, so the protests aren’t about US beef imports per se. Among other things, the current administration has proposed digging a completely useless canal to facillitate transportation between Seoul and Pusan (which takes about three hours by train and would take almost ten times that much time if the canal were to be successful) and to make it mandatory for all Korean public schools to teach every class in English. Also, the current president’s way of handling things has reminded a lot of Koreans of the dictators we had back in the 70s and 80s, which obviously makes a lot of us unhappy. In a nutshell: it’s really complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/10 "2008-06-29T16:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=DaveRaver] Why do South Koreans have a beef with America? We helped them fight North Korea. [/QUOTE] True, but even though you’d be thankful to someone who fought off an attacker breaking into your house, you’d still want that guy to go home eventually. Japan has similar issues (for one, 75% of the total support for all those bases - over $4 billion - comes from Japanese taxpayers. I don’t know if S. Korea pays a similar share), but they have the advantage of Okinawa, a convenient dumping ground for all the NIMBY things like foreign military installations. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/11 "2008-06-29T17:25:10Z")
I know I’m treading close to GD territory but all Japan or South Korea needs to do is tell us to leave. They must tolerate our presence for some reason, right? There is this huge country to the west of them that may be a bit of a concern. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/12 "2008-06-29T19:00:21Z")
The majority of people don’t want the US to leave. It’s the incredibly vocal minority who are upset. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/13 "2008-06-29T20:52:45Z")
Under stress, fear and a seige mentality, people do and think some pretty damned stupid and outright dangerously insane things. It’s like during the Cold War when we had people who thought that the situation was entirely the fault of the USA for making the Russians paranoid, and that if we were to just Unilaterally Disarm - to show how seriously we wanted peace - the Russians would calm down and the entire world would be Sunshine, Puppies and Daisy Farts. For the Koreans, it’s the idea that they are all Koreans, and wouldn’t possibly go to war with each other (despite history saying otherwise) and that therefore, it must be outsiders who are causing this by making the North Koreans afraid. Knowledge of the NK Regime and it’s habits has no impact on this kind of thinking, it’s dismissed out of hand or glossed over, just like Soviet repression of dissent and the Gulag. Beef wise, it’s like any other country, like France and it’s farms, like Japan and their rice. It’s about protecting domestic production of food, raising the public opinion of local products, and demonizing cheaper foreign imports that threaten that domestic production. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/14 "2008-06-29T23:43:57Z")
[QUOTE=gravitycrash] I know I’m treading close to GD territory but all Japan or South Korea needs to do is tell us to leave. [/QUOTE] …and pay a huge amount of money. The US is insisting that Japan pay a total of $26 billion (compared to the US’s share of $4 billion) to move the Marines from Futenma to Guam. That’s just for one base, there are over 45, plus another 18 Marine training areas throughout the country. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/15 "2008-06-29T23:53:34Z")
[QUOTE=Chimera] Under stress, fear and a seige mentality, people do and think some pretty damned stupid and outright dangerously insane things. It’s like during the Cold War when we had people who thought that the situation was entirely the fault of the USA for making the Russians paranoid, and that if we were to just Unilaterally Disarm - to show how seriously we wanted peace - the Russians would calm down and the entire world would be Sunshine, Puppies and Daisy Farts. For the Koreans, it’s the idea that they are all Koreans, and wouldn’t possibly go to war with each other (despite history saying otherwise) and that therefore, it must be outsiders who are causing this by making the North Koreans afraid. Knowledge of the NK Regime and it’s habits has no impact on this kind of thinking, it’s dismissed out of hand or glossed over, just like Soviet repression of dissent and the Gulag. Beef wise, it’s like any other country, like France and it’s farms, like Japan and their rice. It’s about protecting domestic production of food, raising the public opinion of local products, and demonizing cheaper foreign imports that threaten that domestic production. [/QUOTE] This seems like a logical and reasonable assessment. I’m sorry that we can’t keep all the bone fragments out of our beef, just like fish exporting nations can’t keep pin bones out of my fish. I sometimes bite into gristle in my hamburger too. It sucks, but you learn to deal. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/16 "2008-06-29T23:54:59Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] …and pay a huge amount of money. The US is insisting that Japan pay a total of $26 billion (compared to the US’s share of $4 billion) to move the Marines from Futenma to Guam. That’s just for one base, there are over 45, plus another 18 Marine training areas throughout the country. [/QUOTE] Well, in fairness, isn’t there a standing treaty or agreement between the USA and Japan that limits her military power, and allows for our presence? On the face of it, you attacked us, we kicked your ass, and now we set the rules. And those rules have really benefitted Japan (and us) in the long run anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/17 "2008-06-30T00:14:17Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] People are picky about beef. There’s no evidence that BSE is transmittable to humans (the whole CJD thing seems to have gone quiet) and yet for a long time British beef was about as welcome on the export market as a bacon bap at a bar mitzvah. [/QUOTE] And furthermore, those who lived in England for more than 3 months during the 1980s are not permitted to donate blood in the US. Specifically: > [@](#): > > In-Depth Discussion of Variant Creutzfeld-Jacob Disease and Blood Donation > In some parts of the world, cattle can get an infectious, fatal brain disease called Mad Cow Disease. In these same locations, humans have started to get a new disease called variant Creutzfeld-Jacob Disease (vCJD) which is also a fatal brain disease. Scientists believe that vCJD is Mad Cow Disease that has somehow transferred to humans, possibly through the food chain. > > …At this time, the American Red Cross donor eligibility rules related to vCJD are as follows: > > You are not eligible to donate if: > > From January 1, 1980, through December 31, 1996, you spent (visited or lived) a cumulative time of 3 months or more, in the United Kingdom (UK)… [Cite](http://www.redcross.org/services/biomed/0,1082,0_557_,00.html#tra). So the Red Cross at least is not convinced that vCJD cannot be transmitted through beef. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-korean-riots-over-u-s-beef-wtf/454599/18 "2008-06-30T06:04:58Z")
Just for fun, let’s all remember the protestors are completely ignoring the fact that beef in their own country is not inspected to the degree that the beef in the US already is.