# South Park: Problem with Transgendered? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 11, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199 "2016-10-11T00:04:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/21 "2016-10-11T18:14:07Z")
Funny, from watching the last season, I began to think they’d softened their position on transgender from a time when they mocked claims to feeling like you’re the wrong gender as being just as ridiculous as feeling like you were meant to be a tall black man, or a dolphin. I’ll have to watch it all again, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/22 "2016-10-11T19:50:09Z")
I wasn’t watching back in the day for their earlier stuff like Garrison’s transition(s) or the dolphin thing, so can’t speak to those, but at least as far as Caitlyn Jenner is concerned… > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I don’t know if they received any backlash over that… but now they show Caitlyn Jenner as an ugly person with a raspy voice. Now, I don’t mind swipes at Jenner at all. I think she’s a bigot to be honest. But what’s with making her so busted. > [@somepumpkin](#): > > There’s a long list of things to dislike about Jenner before you ever get to the “transgendered” part. …This is basically the point. She’s not a good person, but in an effort to find a positive face for the trans community, the media was falling over themselves to exult Caitlyn Jenner and how brave and beautiful and amazing she was. Even ESPN got in the act despite that she’s been a reality TV show “star” and not an athlete for decades now. The point from South Park was that, aside from the issue of her being trans, she’s still an objectionable person. There’s no criticism in the show (at least that I remember, it has been a season or two) regarding her being trans, just that she likes to run over people with cars and is cashing in on un-earned celebrity. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/23 "2016-10-11T20:27:05Z")
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwi-9qWFy9PPAhXKWD4KHZNLCGMQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1J4143zj3ps&psig=AFQjCNGYIoh9dGk2GqPgYEIwf6TTURcYlw&ust=1476303979540819](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwi-9qWFy9PPAhXKWD4KHZNLCGMQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1J4143zj3ps&psig=AFQjCNGYIoh9dGk2GqPgYEIwf6TTURcYlw&ust=1476303979540819) This is what she looks like. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/24 "2016-10-11T20:29:09Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > I wasn’t watching back in the day for their earlier stuff like Garrison’s transition(s) or the dolphin thing, so can’t speak to those, but at least as far as Caitlyn Jenner is concerned… > > …This is basically the point. She’s not a good person, but in an effort to find a positive face for the trans community, the media was falling over themselves to exult Caitlyn Jenner and how brave and beautiful and amazing she was. Even ESPN got in the act despite that she’s been a reality TV show “star” and not an athlete for decades now. The point from South Park was that, aside from the issue of her being trans, she’s still an objectionable person. There’s no criticism in the show (at least that I remember, it has been a season or two) regarding her being trans, just that she likes to run over people with cars and is cashing in on un-earned celebrity. Well, the whole “ugly person with a raspy voice” is kind of a bad trans stereotype. Yeah, she’s awful, most trans people think she’s an awful bigot, in fact the trans support thread on another forum I go to was for a time called “Goddammit Caitlyn, Stop it!” But just because she’s awful doesn’t mean portraying her as an ugly man-voice person is okay. Like, Chris Brown is an awful scumsack of a human being but it still wouldn’t be right if South Park portrayed him as a monkey with a penchant for watermelon and fried chicken. There are plenty of things to attack the actual person about without catching innocents in your crossfire. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/25 "2016-10-11T20:30:35Z")
South Park offends! News at 11. OP is also missing the “Cissy” and following episodes, were Cartman pretends to be “Erica” to gain privileges. The kids had to explain that although in most cases they are fine with this, where Cartman is involved it is wrong. > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > But when Mr. Garrison got a sex change operation, I remember him saying something along the lines of: “I’m not a woman! I’m a man with a mutilated penis!” That episode was from 2008. It has really only been in the last few years that transgender weren’t joke material, and then a few years earlier when homosexuality was joke fodder. I’m not saying that makes it right, but the same shows and media that are at the forefront of accepting trans people were often the same ones making the jokes a decade ago. 8 years ago, most Democrats were still unwilling to publicly support gay marriage, and deciding what bathroom to allow people to use was a non-issue. > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > You’re missing the point. > > Garrison isn’t “trans” he’s Garrison. Mostly a horrible, selfish person. I seem to recall someone (Chef?) mentioning this. Whatever Garrison is, it’s not easy to define or static. Garrison is a messed up person, but it is independent of his sexuality. > [@CandidGamera](#): > > I submit that just as often, Cartman is the fucking protagonist of this show. Yes of course he is, he has been 1 of the 4 protagonists from S1E1. [Protagonist != hero](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainProtagonist). People don’t always get karmic retribution in real life. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > In some sense, Garrison’s journey isn’t too far removed from the early seasons of _Soap_, in which a homosexual character thought he should have gender-reassignment surgery to become female and could thus form a “normal” couple with his boyfriend, who himself was deeply closeted. I have known someone like this in real life, thankfully more comfortable with himself. It would’ve been something to support _if he were really transgender_. And it was the motive for _Dog Day Afternoon_ and the true robbery that inspired it. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/26 "2016-10-11T20:37:45Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > [https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwi-9qWFy9PPAhXKWD4KHZNLCGMQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1J4143zj3ps&psig=AFQjCNGYIoh9dGk2GqPgYEIwf6TTURcYlw&ust=1476303979540819](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwi-9qWFy9PPAhXKWD4KHZNLCGMQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1J4143zj3ps&psig=AFQjCNGYIoh9dGk2GqPgYEIwf6TTURcYlw&ust=1476303979540819) > > This is what she looks like. And that is almost what she looks like IRL. Her face looks faker than Joan Rivers’ did. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/27 "2016-10-11T20:58:17Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > I wasn’t watching back in the day for their earlier stuff like Garrison’s transition(s) or the dolphin thing, so can’t speak to those, but at least as far as Caitlyn Jenner is concerned… > …This is basically the point. She’s not a good person, but in an effort to find a positive face for the trans community, the media was falling over themselves to exult Caitlyn Jenner and how brave and beautiful and amazing she was. \ “She is stunning and brave”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/28 "2016-10-11T21:11:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Also, you seem to be combining two arguments. There’s voting for your self interests, and then there’s the idea that the anti-gay candidate may support other good things that make up for it. Touche, I did “downgrade” the opposition side a bit, but in reality the opposition is typically (typically! there are exceptions) not the vitriolic-spewing fifth that their opponents make them out to be. Both leading candidates in the current spotlight are exceptions, though. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/29 "2016-10-11T21:14:39Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I believe in the later episodes of the show, Jodie was hypnotized into being an old Jewish man and stopped being homosexual at all. But I wasn’t watching anymore by then. My God! Billy Crystal acting like an old Jewish man? How on earth was he able to pull that off convincingly? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/30 "2016-10-11T23:20:34Z")
I tend to assume the South Park method is to say “How can we be incredibly offensive and disgusting _this_ time?” and worry about political messages afterwards, but admittedly I haven’t seen the last few seasons. I’m still a big fan of the film, although I refuse to buy a copy until my child is much older. There’s no way I’m risking her watching that now. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/31 "2016-10-11T23:58:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I tend to assume the South Park method is to say “How can we be incredibly offensive and disgusting _this_ time?” and worry about political messages afterwards, but admittedly I haven’t seen the last few seasons. > > I’m still a big fan of the film, although I refuse to buy a copy until my child is much older. There’s no way I’m risking her watching that now. No. It’s: Dumb current event+Common sense+how shocking can we be+we have a week to put this together+“How can we make Dale think we have a spycam installed in his house/He thinks this sort of thing is endemic only to his family”\* \*Minecraft (I don’t get it!) Stupid Youtube gamer videos (I thought it was just my 4 year olds into that!) The death of the living room (I thought it was just because _I_ was a bad parent) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/32 "2016-10-12T02:55:53Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > My God! Billy Crystal acting like an old Jewish man? How on earth was he able to pull that off convincingly? Oddly, he played a gay character for 3.8 seasons with no stereotypical affect at all, but in the final episodes he was immersed in old-Jewish-guy shtick. ---
**Author:** ![RenaissanceMan203](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/94ad74/32.png) [@RenaissanceMan203](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RenaissanceMan203)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/33 "2016-10-12T05:15:32Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > But when Mr. Garrison got a sex change operation, I remember him saying something along the lines of: “I’m not a woman! I’m a man with a mutilated penis!” Because if that character were real, that’s what he would be? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/34 "2016-10-12T05:47:07Z")
> [@RenaissanceMan203](#): > > Because if that character were real, that’s what he would be? Well, what’s a man, really, but a woman with a crunched chromosome? ---
**Author:** ![RenaissanceMan203](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/94ad74/32.png) [@RenaissanceMan203](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RenaissanceMan203)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/35 "2016-10-12T06:13:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, what’s a man, really, but a woman with a crunched chromosome? A human being with XY chromosomes. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/36 "2016-10-12T08:01:51Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > South Park offends! News at 11. But that’s the thing. South Park isn’t very offensive. That was their selling point, but they don’t generally do things that are actually offensive. They are the skankhunt of offensive TV shows. If they hadn’t quickly taken on some sort of social message, they’d be old hat and boring by now. But trans issues seem to be the exception. I thought it had gotten better with “Princess Kenny” who was just treated like a girl. But the Caitlyn Jenner thing suggests they still don’t care. They started okay with the hero thing, but then they went back to where they decided to depict her as a trans stereotype with a broken face. And, unlike before where that might show up for a bit and disappear, they decided to attach her to Garrison (the guy they used to lampoon trans stuff entirely) and basically make her into a new SP character. I mean, I guess it’s better than what they did with Garrison, but it’s still a step back, in my opinion. There still has never been a trans character depicted well. (Princess Kenny was just a faze.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/37 "2016-10-12T08:28:24Z")
> [@RenaissanceMan203](#): > > A human being with XY chromosomes. Right, like an XX but one of them is crunched. And sometimes an extra X, making an XXY. Of course, every human is pretty much just a genetic jumble of their parents, with sone randomness thrown in. The labels “man/woman” and “male/female” are convenient but need not be restrictive. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/38 "2016-10-12T08:31:03Z")
So they’re not allowed to make fun of the transgendered? They make fun of _everyone_, to leave the transgendered out would be far more prejudicial than to include them. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/39 "2016-10-12T08:36:32Z")
BigT: not sure if you’re disagreeing with me…? They obviously offended the OP, but I never suggested that the show was designed purely for offense. I don’t know why Jenner is portrayed that way, but then 10 years later I’m still not sure why Al GorThee is never serious but just “serial.” XY, XXY, XYY, etc are all genotypically and phenotypically male. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199/40 "2016-10-12T09:25:57Z")
Offended me? Perhaps slightly. But I’m really just pointing out what I see and challenging the people who don’t see ot the same way. It just seems like they have little respect for trans people. Or they are just lazy about representing people who are… Unlike Jimmy or Big Gay Al and even Mr. Slave, who are all stereotypes, but Matt and Trey often portray them as just zany residence in a town full of zany people, that have good qualities that show they’re humans just like everyone else. But perhaps I’m reading too much into it. That’s why I made the thread. I wanted to see other people’s responses to this stuff. Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-park-problem-with-transgendered/768199.md?page=3)