# Southwest removes another passenger-but why are they apologizing for it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453 "2017-09-27T18:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/21 "2017-09-27T20:25:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I flew on Southwest right after the United incident, and they had a good chuckle about not dragging their passengers off the plane. So they apologized, even though they were in the right here. > > And I tend to think the woman was lying about here “life threatening” allergy. Does she steer away from places police dogs are? Agree. I googled “life threatening dog allergies” and the only thing I found were references to this incident. I’ve know a few people with pet allergies. They take Benedryl, but they still come over to my house with 2 dogs and 2 cats. I’ve never met someone with a truly life-threatening pet allergy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/22 "2017-09-27T20:28:13Z")
> [@treis](#): > > There’s a difference between a service animal and an emotional support animal. A service animal is specifically trained to do something that ameliorates a persons disability. The examples you mention fall under this category. In general, they are very well trained and don’t cause disturbances when brought into places where pets normally aren’t allowed. They are clearly covered by the ADA and businesses cannot discriminate against customers that use them. > > Emotional support animals are different. They don’t provide any specific service and aren’t nearly as well trained as true service animals. They are glorified pets and people try to use the fancy emotional support animal definition to be covered under the ADA. It’s seen as special snowflakes claiming a disability in order to force businesses to admit their pets. Of course, that’s a broad brush and clearly a dog could be trained to provide a service to someone with a mental illness that genuinely disables them. Unfortunately, that’s not the case for the majority of emotional support animals. Oh. I honestly didn’t know there was a distinction. I was talking about service animals I guess. I didn’t know you could bring an emotional support animal on a plane (hell, I didn’t know there WERE emotional support animals). Sorry…but thanks for the explanation. I’ll have to process this before I call bullshit, but gives me something to think about. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/23 "2017-09-27T20:29:08Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > Agree. I googled “life threatening dog allergies” and the only thing I found were references to this incident. I’ve know a few people with pet allergies. They take Benedryl, but they still come over to my house with 2 dogs and 2 cats. I’ve never met someone with a truly life-threatening pet allergy. And a person with a life-threatening pet allergy would probably not be safe if they removed the animals that had presumably already spread dander, etc. onto the plane (or the animals that may very well have been on the previous flight, sitting on the very seat this woman occupied - I don’t think the cleaning done between flights is sufficient to remove all allergens). So if the woman was telling the truth about her allergy, assisting her in getting off the plane may have been the only alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/24 "2017-09-27T20:34:49Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Oh. I honestly didn’t know there was a distinction. I was talking about service animals I guess. I didn’t know you could bring an emotional support animal on a plane (hell, I didn’t know there WERE emotional support animals). Sorry…but thanks for the explanation. I’ll have to process this before I call bullshit, but gives me something to think about. [We’ve had a few threads about them in the past](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=site%3Astraightdope.com+support+animals&oq=site%3Astraightdope.com+support+animals&gs_l=psy-ab.3...0.0.0.6413.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.8M4sJYSHWEo) and [Cecil did a column about them earlier this year](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3343/service-animals-emotional-support-animals-therapy-animals-how-are-they-different). ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/25 "2017-09-27T20:36:25Z")
Double post. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/26 "2017-09-27T20:38:17Z")
> [@treis](#): > > There’s a difference between a service animal and an emotional support animal. A service animal is specifically trained to do something that ameliorates a persons disability. The examples you mention fall under this category. In general, they are very well trained and don’t cause disturbances when brought into places where pets normally aren’t allowed. They are clearly covered by the ADA and businesses cannot discriminate against customers that use them. > > Emotional support animals are different. They don’t provide any specific service and aren’t nearly as well trained as true service animals. They are glorified pets and people try to use the fancy emotional support animal definition to be covered under the ADA. It’s seen as special snowflakes claiming a disability in order to force businesses to admit their pets. Of course, that’s a broad brush and clearly a dog could be trained to provide a service to someone with a mental illness that genuinely disables them. Unfortunately, that’s not the case for the majority of emotional support animals. Not sure why you are telling me this. I am fully aware of the distinctions and I know the law. I was responding to **dalej42** who thinks the only two types of support dogs are guide dogs for the blind and therapy dogs. I wanted his opinion on other types of support animals. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/27 "2017-09-27T21:03:43Z")
I didn’t know flying with pets was a thing. (I rarely fly) But as much as I love my little doggies, I would not consider ever bringing one on an airplane. They smell… _bad!_ And I’ll tell ya, if Doxie farted, like he is wont to do, it could very well bring the whole craft down! 😃 There would be some _serious_ apologizing to be done in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/28 "2017-09-27T21:12:30Z")
I’d like to clarify further that a therapy dog is not a service animal. Therapy dogs are those that visit with their able-bodied handler/owner at nursing homes, rehab facilities, library “read to a dog” programs, schools, universities, hospitals, airports, disaster scenes, hospices, funeral homes, camps, and so on. They provide momentary comfort and cheer to people who are not their owner, on a volunteer basis. They do not have any right of public access; under the ADA, they are pets. They are welcome in places that do not allow pets only by invitation as part of an arranged pet therapy visit at that particular time. Source: My dog and I are a registered therapy dog team\* with the Alliance of Therapy Dogs. She wears a harness that says “THERAPY DOG” when she is working, and I frequently give my elevator speech about the difference between therapy dogs and service dogs when she is wearing it. (Yes, you can pet her, but you should still ask first. Her job is to be petted, unlike a service dog, who must not be petted while working.) If you see someone claiming that their “therapy dog” has a right to public access, either they are faking or they are violating their therapy organization’s rules. If I tried to use my dog’s therapy dog status to gain public access where pets are not allowed, we could lose our registration with ATD (and thus our insurance and our ability to visit). Part of the problem is the term “therapy dog,” I think. Yes, an “emotional support animal” \ is “therapeutic” and provides comfort to its owner, but it is not a “therapy dog.” A therapy dog provides pet therapy, as described above. \*We completed visit #48 today. Two more and she will have earned the AKC Therapy Dog title (THD). Next level: 100 visits. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/29 "2017-09-27T21:28:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Another perfectly good theory shot all to hell by “facts”. 😃 Facts, schmacts. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/30 "2017-09-28T00:12:11Z")
To expand the definition of service, there are anxiety dogs. For some people with anxiety, the first symptom that they have started an anxiety spiral is losing the ability to monitor their own emotional state. So at exactly the time that they should be taking their acute incident meds, they’re unable to tell that they should be taking their meds. Dogs can be trained to monitor and signal them when they should be taking that pill. It’s a difficult thing to train for, and actual anxiety dogs are expensive. The usual signal is placing a paw on their patient’s thigh and looking at them until they notice. So the dogs have to be large enough to comfortably reach a person’s thigh. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/31 "2017-09-28T00:34:04Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > And a person with a life-threatening pet allergy would probably not be safe if they removed the animals that had presumably already spread dander, etc. onto the plane (or the animals that may very well have been on the previous flight, sitting on the very seat this woman occupied - I don’t think the cleaning done between flights is sufficient to remove all allergens). So if the woman was telling the truth about her allergy, assisting her in getting off the plane may have been the only alternative. And does this woman make sure to never sit next to someone who owns a pet? “Life-threatening allergy” my ass. That doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/32 "2017-09-28T00:52:18Z")
In the thread about the guy being forcefully removed from a United flight, the prevailing consensus was they had no right to remove him. What right did Southwest have in this instance to remove the woman? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/33 "2017-09-28T00:56:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > In the thread about the guy being forcefully removed from a United flight, the prevailing consensus was they had no right to remove him. What right did Southwest have in this instance to remove the woman? Didn’t read the article linked in the OP, didja? > [@](#): > > Per the airline’s policies, a passenger can be denied boarding if they report a life-threatening allergic reaction without a medical certificate and cannot travel safely with an animal, a rep for the airline says. The airline’s allergy policy notes that passengers can be seated as far away as possible from animals, but that the airline is required to fly emotional support animals. > > As a result, she was asked to exit the plane. > > A rep for Southwest tells NBC Los Angeles that the crew made repeated attempts to explain the situation to the customer but she refused to leave the aircraft and law enforcement was brought in. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/34 "2017-09-28T00:57:20Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > In the thread about the guy being forcefully removed from a United flight, the prevailing consensus was they had no right to remove him. What right did Southwest have in this instance to remove the woman? She claimed to be in imminent danger - obviously if she was telling the truth, she needed medical support beyond that available on a plane. Ninja’d by Snowboarder (in revenge for the times I’ve ninja’d him, no doubt). ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/35 "2017-09-28T00:59:12Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > “Life-threatening allergy” my ass. That doesn’t exist. Life threatening allergies do certainly exist. I’ve seen them up close, and treated them. One was triggered by shrimp, and the guy became a pulseless non-breather right in front of me (resuscitation was successful) and the other was to peanuts. I’ve also seen severe asthma attacks triggered by animal dander. 5000 people die in the US every year from acute asthma attacks. Now, I am dubious about the woman’s claim that her condition was that severe. If it was, she’d carry an epi-pen and the appropriate documentation about the severity of such condition. But allergies do kill people every year. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/36 "2017-09-28T01:02:35Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Didn’t read the article linked in the OP, didja? I did read that. And it says “Denied Boarding” But she was already aboard. A point that was repeatedly made in the thread about the United Flight. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/37 "2017-09-28T01:15:34Z")
So if she had had all the right paperwork, she could have gotten her injection? Huh? :dubious: Do airlines routinely carry those kinds of medicines on-board, with crew qualified to administer them? It was already questioned up-thread why she didn’t have her meds with her (a remark, BTW, that I didn’t see mentioned in the linked article). But personal meds or no meds, and paperwork or no paperwork, why should the airline have been expected to have or administer any meds? As far as I can see, nobody has asked _that_ obvious question yet. TBH, I’d rather share parks, movie theaters, airplanes and other public places with more dogs and fewer _Homo insapiens_ . (ETA: **QtM** ’s post wasn’t there when I started this post.) ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/38 "2017-09-28T01:29:38Z")
In this particular case, I think the woman was trying to raise a stink. She was trying to get booted off the plane. In general, I’ve wondered for a while about animals on airplanes. We don’t allow smoking any longer. If I tell an airlines that I have a peanut allergy, at least some of them will ask the passengers in the immediate area if it’s ok to not serve peanuts. But animals? I have allergies. Not life threatening, but annoying. Why does an animal have more rights to a comfortable flight than I do? Yes, I could take some kind of meds. It would leave me sleepy and disoriented, and probably not take affect until well into the flight. No one warns you they are putting a dog under your seat, so I can’t take anything ahead of time. I just don’t get why shoving a dog in a bag under my plane seat is ok. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/39 "2017-09-28T01:38:42Z")
FWIW I probably have as much dog dander on my clothes as exists on whatever sort of dog can fit in a carrier under a seat. Especially if it’s a short-haired dog (my dog has an under-coat). And I’m kind of fastidious about dog hair and a clean person. I’m guessing there’s not that much more risk of triggering pet allergies by allowing pets on the plane as there is allowing pet owners. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453/40 "2017-09-28T01:45:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I did read that. And it says “Denied Boarding” But she was already aboard. A point that was repeatedly made in the thread about the United Flight. So tell us what your solution to this dilemma is, please. . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/southwest-removes-another-passenger-but-why-are-they-apologizing-for-it/797453.md?page=3)