# Sovereign citizen tests his theories in practice; is shocked by the results **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 19, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218 "2012-09-19T23:15:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/241 "2013-02-08T00:02:15Z")
Like a puppy! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/242 "2013-02-08T00:08:33Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Like a puppy! Yes, in all seriousness, that is a good way of describing him. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/243 "2013-02-16T22:09:14Z")
Just stumbled across this thread - very interesting stuff! That Alberta divorce decision is fantastic - really covers the waterfront. I have sovereign American citizens/tax protesters/Freemen types in my courtroom now and then, and just recently had my first “Moorish citizen” case. One of my favorite quotations for use in such cases: “Some people believe with great fervor preposterous things that just happen to coincide with their self-interest.” _Coleman v. CIR_ (7th Cir. 1986), 791 F.2d 68, 69. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/244 "2013-02-17T05:52:44Z")
I wondered what became of our friend Robert Peterson (the young man who was tased in the courthouse) since all this. I found that ABC’s “Nightline” did a segment on him in January. It’s kind of interesting. He straps on a handgun whenever he goes out (apparently, this is legal in Idaho), and figures local police are the enemy. [Here’s the link](http://abcnews.go.com/US/defiant-armed-idaho-man-rejects-us-laws-radical/story?id=18154374). Be aware, the video and sound play automatically. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/245 "2013-02-17T06:13:51Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > He straps on a handgun whenever he goes out (apparently, this is legal in Idaho), and figures local police are the enemy. Oh, that’s going to turn out well. Going by that story, sooner or later I suspect we’ll see a thread here about\* Police standoff: remember that ‘sovereign citizen guy’ who got tasered?"\* ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/246 "2013-02-17T12:17:02Z")
Good thing the second amendment is in place to guarantee the right of nutters to wander about armed, despite their not believing that the law applies to them. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/247 "2013-02-17T13:47:28Z")
We have them in England too. I once saw a youtube clip of a women pulled over for speeding haranguing the police about it. Can’t find it now, but there’s a whole playlist of such things here: https://www.youtube.com/embed/QMpB7oZ3WKg?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=PL2641FD38BAE1E15F No taserings, though. ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/250 "2016-05-05T15:53:17Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I’m not sure why, when technology is available to quickly and safely subdue someone . . . There is no such technology. The TASER and other such electronic devices are essentially cattle prods that can be used at distance. They are not used to peacefully subdue anyone they are used to torture anyone who does not immediately comply with commands, regardless how minor or inappropriate. The TASER is the symbol of our police state. Torture on demand for any offence the individual with the badge deems appropriate including moving too slowly and responding with anything other than “yes, Sir”. [cite](http://www.nyclu.org/news/nyclu-analysis-finds-misuse-of-tasers-police-across-ny-state) In New York State: [ul] [li]Nearly 60 percent of reported Taser incidents did not meet expert-recommended criteria that limit the weapon’s use to situations where officers can document active aggression or a risk of physical injury.[/li][li]Fifteen percent of incident reports indicated clearly inappropriate Taser use, such as officers shocking people who were already handcuffed or restrained.[/li][li]Only 15 percent of documented Taser incidents involved people who were armed or who were thought to be armed, belying the myth that Tasers are most frequently used as an alternative to deadly force.[/li][li]More than one-third of Taser incidents involved multiple or prolonged shocks, which experts link to an increased risk of injury and death.[/li][li]More than a quarter of Taser incidents involved shocks directly to subjects’ chest area, despite explicit warnings by the weapon’s manufacturer that targeting the chest can cause cardiac arrest.[/li][li]In 75 percent of incidents, no verbal warnings were reported, despite expert recommendations that verbal warnings precede Taser firings.[/li][li]40 percent of the Taser incidents analyzed involved at-risk subjects, such as children, the elderly, the visibly infirm and individuals who are seriously intoxicated or mentally ill.[/li][li]People of color are overwhelmingly represented in Taser incidents. Of all incidents in which race was recorded, 58 percent involved blacks or Latinos.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/251 "2016-05-05T15:59:12Z")
Just so’s you know-this is a zombie thread, and the post you responded to is from 4 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/252 "2016-05-05T16:05:54Z")
Do tasers work on zombies, or does the zapping just reanimate them? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/253 "2016-05-05T16:15:14Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Do tasers work on zombies, or does the zapping just reanimate them? “STAND BACK, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! THE ZOMBIE’S GOT A ROTTEN BRAIN!” “It’s not rotten! It’s a good brain!” “IT’S ROTTEN, I TELL YOU! ROTTEN…!” “RRAAAAAAAA…!” “…Ixnay on the ottenray…” ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/254 "2016-05-06T07:53:58Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Glad to help. Hey, every now and then, we’ve gotta take one for the team. 🙂 > > The impression I get from the RationalWiki link posted upthread is that a so-called freeman sees each individual as two entities: a legal person, and a human being. While all freemen admit to being human, it is the “legal person” status that bothers them, as by admitting to being a legal person, they feel that they will then be subject to the laws and other rules that are laid down by governments. In the video, Robert is reluctant to admit to being a person to the courthouse employee, as in his mind, that would create “joinder” between Robert the person and Robert the man, making them one and the same and thus subject to laws and governments. > > It wouldn’t. In reality, and just as the RationalWiki link points out, “In real law, joinder means joining related cases together, not establishing identity.” (Quote from the RationalWiki link.) But by that same logic - if he is not a “legal person” wouldn’t it also mean that property law does not apply to him? that he could not claim ownership to property? Wouldn’t it also mean that it would be impossible to assault him or similar crimes of violence? What about for education - are all “human beings” entitled to state funded education, or wouldn’t that only apply to legal people? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/255 "2016-05-06T08:23:29Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > But by that same logic - if he is not a “legal person” wouldn’t it also mean that property law does not apply to him? that he could not claim ownership to property? Wouldn’t it also mean that it would be impossible to assault him or similar crimes of violence? What about for education - are all “human beings” entitled to state funded education, or wouldn’t that only apply to legal people? These people do not exactly have a reputation for logical rigor in their arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/256 "2016-05-06T14:54:06Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > These people do not exactly have a reputation for logical rigor in their arguments. It’s like you get to watch the Dunning Kruger Effect unfold in front of your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/257 "2016-05-06T20:36:51Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > But by that same logic - if he is not a “legal person” wouldn’t it also mean that property law does not apply to him? that he could not claim ownership to property? Wouldn’t it also mean that it would be impossible to assault him or similar crimes of violence? Exactly. What these “sovereign citizens” seem to want is to basically be [outlaws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw), in the original sense of the word. Per the link, historically, being declared an outlaw was one of the most extreme punishments in pre-modern legal systems. An outlaw was literally outside the protection of the law, so anybody could rob or kill them without any legal repercussions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218.md?page=12)