# Sovereign citizen tests his theories in practice; is shocked by the results **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 19, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218 "2012-09-19T23:15:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/101 "2012-09-21T16:21:17Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You know folks, all this stuff about how it works in Canada is as relevant and on-topic as how it works in Zimbabwe. Technically true, but I appreciate the context that it gives, i.e., how other LEOs might have reacted under different rules on taser use. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/102 "2012-09-21T16:33:12Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The appropriate time to zap him would be up the ass during the strip search. [http://www.pixiq.com/article/idaho-police-sodomize-man-with-taser:](http://www.pixiq.com/article/idaho-police-sodomize-man-with-taser:) > [@](#): > > Idaho police sodomize man with Taser Dang, the Boise Ombudsman was not impressed. Oh well, back to the drawing board. > [@Chimera](#): > > You know folks, all this stuff about how it works in Canada is as relevant and on-topic as how it works in Zimbabwe. You mean that the Boise Ombudsman should have reviewed best practices in the USA, Canada and Zimbabwe, rather than just best practices in the USA and Canada, when making his special report on taser use? Or is it that because Coeur d’Alene is at the other end of the state from Boise and is nowhere near Boise’s jurisdiction, making the Ombudsman’s special report no more relevant than how it works in Zimbabwe? Seriously, examining how it works in other relevant jurisdictions is the norm in policy making, particularly when it comes to policing in Canada and the USA. In any event, there is little difference between Canada’s “causing bodily harm, or the member believes on reasonable grounds, that the subject will imminently cause bodily harm” and “immediate threat of physical harm” as recommended by Boise’s Ombudsman. [http://www.boiseombudsman.org/media/2264/Taser\_Use\_by\_BPD.pdf:](http://www.boiseombudsman.org/media/2264/Taser_Use_by_BPD.pdf:) > [@](#): > > OMBUDSMAN’S SPECIAL REPORT > Taser Use by the > Boise Police Department > . . . > > BEST PRACTICES IN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA > > . . . > > The following major studies were evaluated in the course of this review: > > . . . > > These studies and recommendations contained a significant amount of information and > detail. The following areas are of the highest significance: > > 1. Tasers are an effective and valuable tool for law enforcement use. > > 2. Tasers should not be used against passive resisters. All agreed that Tasers were an > appropriate response to active physical aggression. However, opinions were divided > on whether Tasers should be used in the following circumstances: > > a. Non-violent persons fleeing minor charges, e.g., traffic infractions, petty theft, > etc. > > b. Persons who threaten physical resistance. > > c. Persons who physically resist but are not aggressive and present no threat to > officers. > > . . . > > OMBUDSMAN’S RESPONSE TO NEW BOISE POLICE TASER POLICY > > . . . > > I recommend that, under the section that reads, “Unless exigent circumstances exist, the > Conducted Energy Weapon will not be used,” the following item should be added: > > • On subjects whose active resistance is only defensive in nature and who pose no > immediate threat of physical harm to officers, themselves, or others. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/103 "2012-09-21T16:44:04Z")
Besides, if I have my way, Idaho will become part of Canada. From a post in 2002: > [@Most fascinating/weird thing about America](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-fascinating-weird-thing-about-america/104775/16): > > I’d like to take Idaho back home with me, but they won’t let me. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/104 "2012-09-21T16:49:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I realize this is a little mind-bending… Boy, you got that right. I’ve been reading up on this stuff over the last couple of days (figure it’s only a matter of time before I encounter one, as **Muffin** did), and “mind-bending” doesn’t begin to describe it. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/105 "2012-09-21T18:19:50Z")
Wow, that is some industrial strength crazy. This Freeman bullshit reminds me of a guy in collage who swore that if you were planning to drive drunk, always keep a beer in the front seat. Then, if a cop pulls you over, you can step out onto the shoulder, crack open the beer, and chug it. That way, the cop wont be able to prove your blood alcohol level while operating the vehicle. Even when I was a naive 18 year old, I couldn’t believe anyone would get away with that. I don’t know how I missed these Freeman people. How hilarious is it that people think you can outwit a long established system like the United States Judicial branch with a few codewords, leaving all the government shaking their heads and wandering away in defeat, muttering “Aw Man!” like Swiper the fox? As for the tasing, must have been a low setting. Robert barely shouts “Ow” before he’s back to spouting nonsense jargon. I’m sure he was just fine. I’m also sure he’s learned absolutely nothing from his experience. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/106 "2012-09-21T20:10:24Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > I don’t know how I missed these Freeman people. How hilarious is it that people think you can outwit a long established system like the United States Judicial branch with a few codewords, leaving all the government shaking their heads and wandering away in defeat, muttering “Aw Man!” like Swiper the fox? The thing that I wonder is: Do they honestly believe that the people who developed the Constitution of the United States did not intend it to apply to actual human beings? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/107 "2012-09-21T21:25:18Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > Wow, that is some industrial strength crazy. This Freeman bullshit reminds me of a guy in collage who swore that if you were planning to drive drunk, always keep a beer in the front seat. Then, if a cop pulls you over, you can step out onto the shoulder, crack open the beer, and chug it. That way, the cop wont be able to prove your blood alcohol level while operating the vehicle. Even when I was a naive 18 year old, I couldn’t believe anyone would get away with that. Well, almost, sort of, in a round about way, on occasion, it might to some degree (weasel words, weasel words, weasel words), help the drunk if the drunk broke the seal in front of witnesses and chuged down a fair bit of hard alcohol, and then spilled the rest of the bottle. If the amount of alcohol is known and the time of consumption is known, it is possible to estimate what the person’s BAC would have been at the time of testing. By comparing this with what it actually was at the time of testing, it is possible to estimate what the person’s BAC was prior to testing. If the person chugs a lot of hard liquor, and spills a lot, and is not tested until the alcohol has had time to enter the blood, then it will no longer be possible to estimate what the pre-chug BAC was because the amount of alcohol that was chugged is not known due to the spillage. That usually makes it impossible to prove blowing over and unless there is other evidence (e.g. witnesses seeing drinking shortly prior to the collision), it may make it impossible to prove impaired. Fortunately, there is often other evidence. When neither blowing over or impaired can be proven, it is still usually possible to nail the person with obstruction of justice if they consumed alcohol immediately after the collision. The penalty may be less for obstruction than for impaired causing death (it is where I live: max 10 v. max life). A good example of this is RCMP Officer Robinson, in B.C., who when off duty had a collision with a motocycle, whose rider was killed. He walked home, had a couple of shots of vodka, and walked back to the scene of the collision. Since the amount of vodka consumed was not known (they were not measured shots), it was not possible to nail him for blowing over, and there was no witness evidence of his being impaired prior to the collision. He ended up being convicted this summer on obstruction, so he faced 10 years rather than life. He went on paid leave for a few years while the matter made its way through the courts, and when it came to sentencing, he played the alcoholic card (sentencing should try to rehabilitate him) and the aboriginal card (pay particular attention to aboriginals when trying to find sentences that do not incude incarceration), such that all he ended up with was a month of house arrest, eleven months of overnight curfew, and alcoholism treatment. Just as he was about to be sentenced, he quit his job, thus avoiding the administrative hearing he was facing. All in all, he could have been facing life, but got off without jail time, so in all probability, it worked for him. He had lucky cards and he played his hand well. Coincidentally Robinson had previously been the leader of a group of officers who tasered a man to death. A fellow from Poland who did not speak any English flew in to Vancouver in the early afternoon to begin immigration. At the airport, it took many hours to process him, and in the meantime his waiting mother was told he had not arrived, so she went home. Eventually he ended up on his own in the airport, late at night, and was tired and frustrated, so he acted out by throwing a computer screen and a very small table on the ground, well away from anyone. Police arrived, were advised that he did not speak English, and then approached him and verbally commanded him, so he retreated and picked up the stapler that Gorsnak referred to earlier in this thread. At no time was anyone in any danger. The police zapped him five times, and he died. Here’s the video: [http://youtu.be/IPe\_hf7aBXM](http://youtu.be/IPe_hf7aBXM) . This led to a major inquiry into taser use (Braidwood Inquiry). The description that the police officers gave of the person’s behaviour was so greatly different than that given by the other witnesses and shown by the video that perjury charges were brought. Robinson is still facing the perjury charge. The Braidwood Inquiry recommended that tasers should only be used if there is bodily harm or imminent bodily harm. It used the National Use of Force Framework, which Canadian and American police had previously developed, which, et alia, broke behaviour down in categories such as passive resisting and active resisting. The National Use of Force Framework was used in the RCMP taser policy (see my post on page one of this thread), and both the Braidwood Inquiry and the National Use of Force Framework were used by the Complaints Commission released earlier this week (again refer to my post on page one), recommending that a person being active resistant is not sufficient to justify taser use in Canada – there must be bodily harm or imminent bodily harm, as has also been recommended in Boise (threat of physical harm). ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/108 "2012-09-21T21:27:05Z")
Just out of idle curiosity, what is the legal justification that allows judges to ban video cameras from courtrooms? Is it just one of those “he’s a judge, it’s his courtroom, therefore what he says goes” things, or is there more to it than that? -Not in any way, shape, or form a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/109 "2012-09-21T21:40:30Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Is it just one of those “he’s a judge, it’s his courtroom, therefore what he says goes” things, or is there more to it than that? Under common law, the judge controls the courtroom. Statute law can change that by espressly banning cameras or expressly permitting cameras. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/110 "2012-09-21T23:43:44Z")
Can someone show me the toe shoes? I don’t know what you’re talking about. StG ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/111 "2012-09-21T23:47:08Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > Can someone show me the toe shoes? I don’t know what you’re talking about. > > StG [Toe shoes.](http://www.google.com/search?q=toe+shoes&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Y_xcUIiKOOXZigLJ_IGIBA&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1505&bih=756) ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/112 "2012-09-22T00:06:47Z")
I thought maybe it was [these.](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=mexican+toe+shoes&num=10&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1465&bih=883&tbm=isch&tbnid=FPI6EVq-FnFjLM:&imgrefurl=http://shoeblogs.com/category/shoes/boots/page/3/&docid=urgJDu57PUxhgM&imgurl=http://shoeblogs.com/wordpress/images/botas_exoticas.jpg&w=670&h=536&ei=pwBdULv8M4jO2gXU24GYAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=197&vpy=327&dur=4188&hovh=201&hovw=251&tx=80&ty=118&sig=110159120894919579594&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=164&tbnw=204&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:89) I wonder if he had any real business with the courts, or if he just wanted to show of his magic words? StG ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/113 "2012-09-22T00:13:42Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > I thought maybe it was [these.](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=mexican+toe+shoes&num=10&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1465&bih=883&tbm=isch&tbnid=FPI6EVq-FnFjLM:&imgrefurl=http://shoeblogs.com/category/shoes/boots/page/3/&docid=urgJDu57PUxhgM&imgurl=http://shoeblogs.com/wordpress/images/botas_exoticas.jpg&w=670&h=536&ei=pwBdULv8M4jO2gXU24GYAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=197&vpy=327&dur=4188&hovh=201&hovw=251&tx=80&ty=118&sig=110159120894919579594&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=164&tbnw=204&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:89) Holy shit, those are . . . something. Really something. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/114 "2012-09-22T00:14:39Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > I thought maybe it was [these.](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=mexican+toe+shoes&num=10&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1465&bih=883&tbm=isch&tbnid=FPI6EVq-FnFjLM:&imgrefurl=http://shoeblogs.com/category/shoes/boots/page/3/&docid=urgJDu57PUxhgM&imgurl=http://shoeblogs.com/wordpress/images/botas_exoticas.jpg&w=670&h=536&ei=pwBdULv8M4jO2gXU24GYAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=197&vpy=327&dur=4188&hovh=201&hovw=251&tx=80&ty=118&sig=110159120894919579594&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=164&tbnw=204&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:89) > > I wonder if he had any real business with the courts, or if he just wanted to show of his magic words? > > StG Parking ticket. He needs to stop loaning his car to his birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/115 "2012-09-22T00:38:13Z")
Thank you for introducing me to Rational Wiki. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/116 "2012-09-22T00:43:45Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [Toe shoes.](http://www.google.com/search?q=toe+shoes&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Y_xcUIiKOOXZigLJ_IGIBA&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1505&bih=756) > [@StGermain](#): > > I thought maybe it was [these.](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=mexican+toe+shoes&num=10&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1465&bih=883&tbm=isch&tbnid=FPI6EVq-FnFjLM:&imgrefurl=http://shoeblogs.com/category/shoes/boots/page/3/&docid=urgJDu57PUxhgM&imgurl=http://shoeblogs.com/wordpress/images/botas_exoticas.jpg&w=670&h=536&ei=pwBdULv8M4jO2gXU24GYAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=197&vpy=327&dur=4188&hovh=201&hovw=251&tx=80&ty=118&sig=110159120894919579594&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=164&tbnw=204&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:89) See, I immediately pictured [these…](http://www.google.com/search?q=Pointe+Shoes&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&sqi=2&biw=1505&bih=756&gs_l=img.3..0l9j0i5.4562.6420.0.6670.9.9.0.0.0.0.172.860.0j6.6.0...0.0...1c.1.KfTC5rnh2vw&oq=Pointe+Shoes) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/117 "2012-09-22T03:15:36Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > I wonder if he had any real business with the courts, or if he just wanted to show of his magic words? Apparently, he did. In searching for more on this, I found that he got a ticket for riding his bike at night, without a light. This was his chance to fight it. He kept saying he needed to speak with the prosecutor, so I’m guessing he was going to use his magic words in his conversation with the prosecutor. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/118 "2012-09-22T04:02:44Z")
If you had business in the court, would you want some stranger recording the proceedings and putting it on the internet? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Timchik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@Timchik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timchik)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/119 "2012-09-22T04:40:56Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > The thing that I wonder is: Do they honestly believe that the people who developed the Constitution of the United States did not intend it to apply to actual human beings? No, as always with these sorts, the original Constitution was perfection incarnate. It all seems to have gone to hell in 1871 or thereabouts, with the formation of the District of Columbia. Details in the [conspiracy mother lode](http://www.usavsus.info/), sort of. If you can figure out a coherent narrative from that, you’re ahead of me. Best quote: [QUOTE=a rambling nutter] "All Rule comes from “District of Columbia” which is run by the Gnostic Priesthood of the undisclosed mystery Babylon. [/QUOTE] Naturally, the Knights Templar and the Masons are involved. Not saying that our friend Robert believes everything in this website, but this is the kind of place he’s gleaning his information from. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218/120 "2012-09-22T06:52:53Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I think that most of the references in this thread about the flag fringe thing have avoided the point. Way back when I was a tax protester, the whole point wasn’t that it was ‘an admiralty court’ _exclusively_. It was that 1. It \*could \*operate under ‘admiralty laws’ which could disregard Constitutional rights, and 2. the fringe on the flag was a clear and obvious sign that it could operate under admiralty laws, and the whole point of any flag, anywhere, is to let everybody know what they were getting into, so to speak, and that if you didn’t protest/challenge the jurisdiction immediately, you waived all right to challenge the fact that you were given the bum’s rush into the electric chair/Sing Sing, because you had blamed well agreed to less than Constitutional rules. > Allegedly, there was case law which backed that up. > If I mis-read any of the above posts, I apologize; as it is, I didn’t interpret any of them to show that this was the issue in re: the borders of the flag. I think the judgement cited above was dodging the issue by saying that the Defendant was making the claim of _exclusivity_, or else the def. was totally unclear even of his \*own \*point. > BTW, did you all catch the “…it’s not like I haven’t been tazered before.” Priceless. I’m not sure if I understand. Are you saying you believe the flag nonsense? There is no case law about what a particular flag in a courtroom means. There could be a flag with gold trim, no trim, no flag or a Mickey Mouse flag. It makes no difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizen-tests-his-theories-in-practice-is-shocked-by-the-results/635218.md?page=7)