# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")
So this really exists? This group of people really exists? I just learned about this today. Before tonight I had no idea of and never heard of sovereign citizens before. This is real? The mind boggles. I am firmly convinced that, if this a real group, that they were either put here on earth for the sole purpose of entertaining others when they finally get the good smackdown that they so deserve…or… are real life masochists who deliberately troll others just so that they can get an abusive beatdown. I took great delight in [watching](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCozh_vbYdM) [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-32-m0_-Sg) [like](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKn6ftuNKfY) [these](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUgmc7kKqOI), Basically “sovereign citizens getting owned”. I could watch this stuff all day, hours of it. That moment when they finally get what they deserve; whether that’s being tasered or arrested or handcuffed or held down forcefully–all for being a complete asshat, jerk twat–it is SO satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![ghettomotels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8baadc/32.png) [@ghettomotels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ghettomotels)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/2 "2016-10-24T07:41:02Z")
Seems borderline Freudian for you, lol. These “know your rights” type are nothing new. Very common down south, to a lesser extent in the midwest. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/3 "2016-10-24T10:07:15Z")
I first heard about them years ago. I also binge watched YouTube videos of them going on and on about “joinder” and stuff. And they really _believe_. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/4 "2016-10-24T10:59:38Z")
Where were you during the whole “Bundy family takes over federal land” fiasco? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/5 "2016-10-24T11:01:37Z")
I don’t really keep up to date on current events or news. I don’t know who the Bundy family is, unless you mean Ted Bundy’s family, I know who he is, but I didn’t know anything about his family was relevant now a days. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/6 "2016-10-24T11:32:09Z")
> [@ghettomotels](#): > > These “know your rights” type are nothing new. Very common down south, to a lesser extent in the midwest. [“Knowing your rights”](https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights) is a far cry from spouting sovereign citizen/freeman on the land nonsense. I’ve seen plenty of videos on YouTube of citizens legitimately refusing to identify themselves, to consent to searches, or to desist from peaceful and non-interfering activities (such as recording a third party’s arrest) during encounters with police. By and large these citizens are entirely in the right, legally speaking, and they’re to be commended for not allowing themselves to be pressed, deceived, or intimidated into waiving their legal rights. There is plenty of case law and no shortage of legal experts supporting these people’s choice not to comply. The same cannot be said of sovereign citizens, whose legalistic reasoning is not based on any sane interpretation of statute or case law, and is roundly condemned by just about anyone with the faintest inkling of how the law actually works. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/7 "2016-10-24T11:40:28Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I don’t really keep up to date on current events or news. I don’t know who the Bundy family is, unless you mean Ted Bundy’s family, I know who he is, but I didn’t know anything about his family was relevant now a days. I’ll admit I’m also surprised that somebody hasn’t heard of this. Especially a moderator on this board, where it’s been the topic of several threads. But this will catch you up: [Cliven Bundy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy), [Bundy standoff](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff), [Ammon Bundy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammon_Bundy), [Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/8 "2016-10-24T11:56:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ll admit I’m also surprised that somebody hasn’t heard of this. Especially a moderator on this board, where it’s been the topic of several threads. > > But this will catch you up: [Cliven Bundy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy), [Bundy standoff](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff), [Ammon Bundy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammon_Bundy), [Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge) Or [these](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=666038&highlight=sovereign) [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=763650&highlight=sovereign) threads dealing directly with sovereign citizen goofiness. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/9 "2016-10-24T12:54:44Z")
How did you miss all this [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting\_of\_Korryn\_Gaines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Korryn_Gaines) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/10 "2016-10-24T13:14:22Z")
They sound more real when they have BIBLICAL NAMES!! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/11 "2016-10-24T17:05:56Z")
**Idle Thoughts** , if you have time on your hands, read the _Meads_ decision from the Alberta Court of Queen’s Bench. More than you will likely ever need to know about the SovCits. [https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html](https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/12 "2016-10-24T18:40:41Z")
In addition to the Bundys, there are kooks like Eric and Daniel Rudolph. The Olympic Park bomber and his brother, who sawed off his own hand as a show of solidarity. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/13 "2016-10-24T19:09:55Z")
Babbling cretins so upset that the world has moved on from their brand of infantile goofiness that they lash out much like a child throwing a tantrum. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/14 "2016-10-24T19:16:29Z")
In one video, a SovCit woman said that being a SovCit means getting all the privileges of being a US citizen without following any of the laws. One commenter then mentioned the obvious - that by this logic, another SovCit could rape her and suffer no legal consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/15 "2016-10-24T19:52:22Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I don’t really keep up to date on current events or news. I don’t know who the Bundy family is, unless you mean Ted Bundy’s family, I know who he is, but I didn’t know anything about his family was relevant now a days. No, no, no. He’s talking about [Al Bundy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se78x_Y5sZk). Geez get with the times man. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/16 "2016-10-24T20:38:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In one video, a SovCit woman said that being a SovCit means getting all the privileges of being a US citizen without following any of the laws. > > One commenter then mentioned the obvious - that by this logic, another SovCit could rape her and suffer no legal consequences. In the first video of the OP (around 3min), it’s interesting that while being dragged out of the car (by the police), one apparent SovCit starts with “I do not consent” and then moves on to “I’m being assaulted, call the police!” Did he just forget the script at that point, or what was he expecting to happen involving _other_ police enforcing his “rights”? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/17 "2016-10-24T20:44:36Z")
You enjoy seeing nonviolent people physically assaulted. Re-evaluate yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/18 "2016-10-24T20:45:50Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > You enjoy seeing nonviolent people physically assaulted. Re-evaluate yourself. Never go full retard son. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/19 "2016-10-24T20:55:15Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > In the first video of the OP (around 3min), it’s interesting that while being dragged out of the car (by the police), one apparent SovCit starts with “I do not consent” and then moves on to “I’m being assaulted, call the police!” Did he just forget the script at that point, or what was he expecting to happen involving _other_ police enforcing his “rights”? One of the unspoken tenants of SovCit is that everyone secretly agrees with them and will support them When Things Go Wrong. That person being pulled from his car expects that either a) the police that Real Police and sympathize with the poor SovCit, having heard them state that they do not consent or b) one of the various psuedo-police that SovCits have tried to set up over the years will come running and exert their authority. Reality is a far off land to this people. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/20 "2016-10-24T20:59:22Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > **Idle Thoughts** , if you have time on your hands, read the _Meads_ decision from the Alberta Court of Queen’s Bench. More than you will likely ever need to know about the SovCits. > > [https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html](https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html) This was linked to in a thread I started a while ago, and I gleefully read it over the course of several days. I parceled the damned thing out like Charlie Bucket rationing his chocolate bar. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=2)