# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/261 "2023-04-28T02:44:52Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > They want to be outside the law? So be it. > > No bag limits and a year-round season. Or just deport them: ”What Third World hellhole would you like us to drop you off in, sir? Aw, never mind - we’ll pick for you!” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/262 "2023-04-28T03:48:56Z")
I’m still wondering where they get the idea that they must be United States citizens for the law to apply. Foreigners in the US are also required to obey law, just like Americans in other countries are required to obey those countries’ laws. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/263 "2023-04-28T03:53:03Z")
[Logic is a little tweeting bird, chirping in a meadow.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mswr-u99Lq0) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/264 "2023-04-28T03:54:43Z")
And it’s a lost, lost, very lost soul, don’t you know! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/265 "2023-04-28T04:33:26Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Logic is a little tweeting bird, chirping in a meadow. Yeah, right; next you’ll tell me that logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/266 "2023-05-01T20:20:58Z")
Well, that’s what the Vulcans say, so take it for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/267 "2023-09-14T22:06:00Z")
Traffic stop gone bad for the SovCit. Don’t be armed and mouth off. > **[Police Shooting Of Sovereign Citizen Pulled Over For Fake License Plate Ruled...](https://jalopnik.com/police-shooting-of-sovereign-citizen-pulled-over-for-fa-1850837773)** > > The court found police had “a reasonable, articulable and objectively verifiable belief that use of deadly force was necessary" ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/268 "2023-09-15T05:42:54Z")
Did you read that nutter’s obituary? That was some not excellent fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/269 "2023-09-15T14:08:41Z")
“According to police, [Chase] Allan initially refused to provide any identification to the officer — though he later provided a passport.” Ironic, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/270 "2023-09-15T14:27:58Z")
Was the passport from [this country](https://state-of-tayos.com/en/frequently-asked-questions/)? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/271 "2023-09-15T14:35:24Z")
And, (apparently) not an actual passport, [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/mPPJ96QFfX4/maxresdefault.jpg "Police bodycam video shows fatal shooting of Chase Allan") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPPJ96QFfX4&t=225/4) Starting at 3:45. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/272 "2023-09-15T15:31:26Z")
Yep, the sovcits love to wave around all sorts of pseudo-legal-sounding papers filled with legalistic gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/273 "2023-09-15T15:52:22Z")
A lot of real legal language can sound like gibberish. Of course idiots would try to make up their own. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/274 "2023-09-15T15:53:15Z")
It’s a weird pseudo intellectual kind of superstition, a bizarre form of belief in talismanic magic and incantations. Civil rights, seen through the lens of cargo cultism. They don’t understand so they draw catastrophically wrong conclusions on how law and society function, and then aggressively try to make those work on the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/275 "2023-09-15T16:30:12Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Did you read that nutter’s obituary? That was some not excellent fiction. I didn’t see a link in the article but [tracked it down](https://www.lindquistmortuary.com/obituaries/chase-allan) Here is the relevant portion. > He was a gracious, loving soul who would do anything for anyone in need. He was always helping and protecting others in need. He had been studying constitutional law the last few years and was a patriot doing what he could to defend the people’s freedom and liberty in his community. He paid the ultimate price for his freedom with his devastating and tragic death. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/276 "2023-09-15T17:26:29Z")
Right, Jeremiah Johnson driving around in a Ford Escort. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/277 "2023-09-15T17:28:00Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > He had been studying constitutional law the last few years At what law school? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/278 "2023-09-15T17:35:51Z")
I’m willing to be that it was self directed study. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/279 "2023-09-15T17:36:09Z")
Edit: Dangit! I was too slow with my razor wit. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/280 "2023-09-15T17:44:26Z")
Looks like the graduated from the Hard Knocks campus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=15)