# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/361 "2023-09-20T19:32:35Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > And there probably have been lots of times where the words “worked,” in that they walked away free after using the words on a police officer I doubt that. If anything, there are probably lots of cases where a cop who would have let somebody off with a warning becomes less accommodating after some idiot spews SovCit nonsense at them. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/362 "2023-09-20T19:33:02Z")
As US Nationals they assuredly have all the rights the Magna Carta, The Declaration of Independence, and The Articles of Confederation grant a US National! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/363 "2023-09-20T19:53:31Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > If anything, there are probably lots of cases where a cop who would have let somebody off with a warning becomes less accommodating after some idiot spews SovCit nonsense at them. I know a handful of retired LEOs from various jurisdictions. They’re old enough that SovCitery was known of, but not widespread, while they were still on the job. No chance any of these guys would’ve listened to 30 seconds of that spew before the perp was out of the car face down. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/364 "2023-09-20T22:37:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You should’ve seen Marie Antoinette with no makeup on. Wait…are you saying she didn’t really look like Kirsten Dunst? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/365 "2023-09-21T02:53:26Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So being a national still means you need to follow the law. I’ve always wondered how they’ve decided they don’t have to obey the law because “they’re not US citizens”. Foreign visitors to the United States are required to obey US law unless they’re accredited diplomats. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/366 "2023-09-21T04:48:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Wait…are you saying she didn’t really look like Kirsten Dunst? At the end, she might have looked like one of Kirsten Dunst’s barbies from, ‘Toy Soldiers’ though… ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/367 "2023-09-21T07:08:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Don’t google “Kangaroo in a can” I, for one, was extremely disappointed with the results of that search. I was hoping for kangaroos in portable toilets, or puréed into a breakfast spread. Either extreme would have been okay. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/368 "2023-09-21T08:28:41Z")
If you’re in Australia, you can shop for [kangaroom meat at Coles](https://www.coles.com.au/browse/meat-seafood/game/kangaroo). ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/369 "2023-09-21T10:56:06Z")
Yes and we have it semi regularly. It’s the “Skippy” thing that is jarring. It’s like the difference between having a beef steak and having a beef steak with a label saying “Daisy your childhood housecow pal“ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/370 "2023-09-21T11:40:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’ve always wondered how they’ve decided they don’t have to obey the law because “they’re not US citizens”. Foreign visitors to the United States are required to obey US law unless they’re accredited diplomats. The “real” answer is that that phrase is just shorthand for their more intricate beliefs. Which ultimately is that the obligation to follow laws is default opt-in, but you can opt-out. Ordinary citizens and ordinary foreign visitors don’t know to opt-out and have therefore been opted in without their knowledge or explicit consent. A consent they don’t realize they can withhold or withdraw. The enlightened SovCit however, knows that their own consent is a decision. And they decide against consenting. They opt-out. Neener neener; you can’t touch me!!1! And the shorthand for “I opt out” is “I’m a sovereign citizen of myself, not a US citizen opting into your country and its silly laws.” Of course it’s pure BS all the way down. But the terminology is clear enough even if the usage is … idiosyncratic. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/371 "2023-09-21T12:30:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > But the terminology is clear enough even if the usage is … idiosyncratic. Most religions and BS cults usually have intricate mythologies and frameworks of belief. Why should they be any different than Scientology? ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/372 "2023-09-21T14:40:13Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > … And the shorthand for “I opt out” is “I’m a sovereign citizen of myself, not a US citizen opting into your country and its silly laws.” … But the Evil Government has myriad ways to trap the Freeman on the Land back into its clutches, one of which is the [Buck Act](http://www.rogermwilcox.com/debuck.html) (warning: kinda long and intricate). The article also includes a link to another long and intricate — but rather amusing — article on tax resistance, another staple of the SovCit movement. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/373 "2023-09-21T17:34:25Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It’s the “Skippy” thing that is jarring. Then you may be further dismayed by the fact that it comes in a Super Chunky variety. ---
**Author:** ![Hurrilon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@Hurrilon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hurrilon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/374 "2023-09-23T23:11:04Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > No, but the Sovereign Citizens are a Three Stooges routine, collectively. You give them way too much credit. The Stooges are geniuses compared to the SovCits. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/375 "2023-09-23T23:28:39Z")
> [@Hurrilon](#): > > > [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > > > No, but the Sovereign Citizens are a Three Stooges routine, collectively. > > You give them way too much credit. The Stooges are geniuses compared to the SovCits. - Plus the Three Stooges are only _pretending_ to be idiots. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/376 "2023-09-24T00:01:34Z")
Curly: “Hey, I resemble that remark!!” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/RrcXYn6HqX8/hqdefault.jpg "I resemble that remark") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrcXYn6HqX8) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/377 "2023-09-24T02:52:19Z")
You are assuming that anything these people believe has to be internally consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/378 "2023-09-24T05:04:55Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It’s like the difference between having a beef steak and having a beef steak with a label saying “Daisy your childhood housecow pal“ A farmer friend tried raising beef cattle. He started small, with two cows. They were named Lunch and Dinner. “Dinner’s on the table, everybody!” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/379 "2023-09-24T10:11:47Z")
Farmer humor is … speshul. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You are assuming that anything these people believe has to be internally consistent. As Tolstoy didn’t _quite_ say: > All sane people are sane in the same way. Each insane person is insane in their own novel way. Lotta room for some nutters to follow Queen Romana, others to be SovCits, and others to be entertainingly syncretic. As you say, the one thing it doesn’t have to do is make any kind of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/380 "2023-09-24T12:37:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You are assuming that anything these people believe has to be internally consistent. Now where did I say I was doing anything of the like? I was addressing the poster who wondered at “Sovereign Citizens” backing a Queen. As I said, the fact that she’s using a lot of the same bullshit, but in an new and apparently contradictory way doesn’t seem to be a problem, since it’s clearly working. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=20)