# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/481 "2023-10-17T02:29:24Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The fringe signals an Admiralty Court. Why that matters, I haven’t a clue. The SovCit answer? The only two jurisdictions are admiralty law and common law. It’s in the Constitution under Article I, Section 8, Clause 17. I wish I was joking but they state that all of the time. Oh and that particular clause cited as defining jurisdiction? > To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/482 "2023-10-17T02:54:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Which almost makes a weird sort of almost-sense. A ship on the high seas is under no land-based jurisdiction. Not correct, they are under the jurisdiction of the country of their flag. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/483 "2023-10-17T03:10:06Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Because they only have authority over us if we inadvertently admit we’re actually “ships at sea”, and are thus subject to admiralty law. Duh! That explains the news signon “Good morning, Mr. and Mrs. America and all ships at sea; lets go to press.” ---
**Author:** ![Digger11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Digger11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digger11)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/484 "2023-10-17T03:14:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Maybe we should put a bounty on them. That might be a fun sport. I could totally get into that. But it needs a catchy name & I’m coming up dry right now. I’ve thought for sometime that the government should say to those people, “If you don’t recognize the laws that apply to you, then we won’t recognize the laws that prevent harm from coming to you.” ---
**Author:** ![Digger11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Digger11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digger11)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/485 "2023-10-17T03:17:04Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Your SovCit believer avoid Admiralty jurisdiction by saying “I’m not a ship”. And they can avoid non-Admiralty jurisdiction by claiming they’re “traveling” the high seas on land. Either way, they’re off free and the judge will know they’ve been outmaneuvered by the SovCit’s keen legal mind. Either that or the bailiff is about to hit them with his stick. I know which way I’d bet. The Admiralty thing is more because many of them insist that there is a logical and legal connection arising from the wordplay between a berth on a ship and the berth/birth certificate that the government issues to people. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/486 "2023-10-17T07:48:26Z")
Last night, I was watching one of _Team Skeptic_’s videos about a sovcit nutter’s case. When the judge asked him to state his name, the nutter started going on how he was “in special appearance on behalf of the person known as” then he spelled the name, insisting on certain letters being capitalized and others not. The best part of the video was when one of the attorney’s requested the judge’s attention even though she wasn’t involved with the case, which was being handled via Zoom. The attorney’s point was that if the individual discussing the case with the judge refused to identify himself as the defendant, then the defendant has failed to appear and the judge could issue a habeus warrant. Really, judges need to not entertain any of the nutters’ nonsense. The very second they start quoting (and usually incompetently quoting) their magical nonsense, the judge should quash that and move on with the case. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/487 "2023-10-17T12:44:24Z")
Just wondering if the jails have a special section for the SovCit nutters? Or do they mix with the general population so they can spread their nuttiness? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/488 "2023-10-17T14:00:53Z")
As annoying as a SovCit is to deal with, I’d sooner bet that a proseletyzing SovCit prisoner would end up with his face bashed in at best, and something more unspeakable at worst. Do NOT annoy the real criminals who live to lift weights and hurt people. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/489 "2023-10-17T14:38:11Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Fucked if I know. So, lost at sea? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/490 "2023-10-17T15:51:40Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Oh and that particular clause cited as defining jurisdiction? OK… Can you explain how that paragraph negates the legal system? ISTM that that paragraph only applies to ten square miles out of the 68 square miles of Washington D.C. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/491 "2023-10-17T15:56:34Z")
Exactly. It makes no sense whatsoever. That’s the point. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/492 "2023-10-17T16:18:03Z")
But the SovCits must think it means something applicable to their trials. As I said, I can’t see how a clause that seems to me only to apply to Washington, D.C. would apply to a courtroom anywhere else. But it also seems to me that SovCits sincerely _believe_ it applies. Any explaining how they arrive at that? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/493 "2023-10-17T16:21:08Z")
They don’t follow logical trains of thought, they cherrypick 2 or 3 phrases that sound reasonable if you don’t think too much (or even a little) about them and run with it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/494 "2023-10-17T16:51:04Z")
Maybe they’re thinking that since the SovCit isn’t inside that 10 square miles where that clause says Congress is authorized to make laws, that means all other laws of Congress everywhere else are invalid or at least inapplicable to themselves. Really, it’s all that wacky all the way down. Mental quicksand all the way to the center of the Earth and back up and out the other side in China. I don’t have any particular expertise in this stuff. But none of it makes any sense. You’d have to be somewhere between too stupid to be taught to tie shoelaces or barking mad to buy a word of it. Since (most of) these people are wearing shoes, IMO it’s mostly barking mad. And Crocs. Lots and lots of Crocs. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/495 "2023-10-17T17:43:23Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Really, it’s all that wacky all the way down. Mental quicksand all the way to the center of the Earth and back up and out the other side in China. “Mental quicksand.” What a great expression! I would dearly love to see those loons try their inane stunts here in China, though. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/496 "2023-10-17T18:06:18Z")
I just came up with it. Thank you. I’m not asserting it’s 100% original worldwide, but do I know I haven’t read it elsewhere, so it’s new to me here. I was thinking of the idea that someone here n the thread is trying to find their footing for understanding; some kernel of sensible at the base of the pyramid of obviously BS. But here isn’t any such base footing. It’s just insubstantial goo all the way down. So reaching down with your foot trying to touch bottom will fail; there’s no bottom down there. Then it hit me. Quicksand! ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/497 "2023-10-17T18:21:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > OK… Can you explain how that paragraph negates the legal system? Because it explicitly says that Congress has control over DC, they assert that means they have no control over anything else, anywhere. Yes, it’s just as stupid as all their other arguments. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/498 "2023-10-17T18:29:24Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > It’s just insubstantial goo all the way down. I think I’d prefer turtles. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/499 "2023-10-17T18:47:42Z")
If you’re fat enough and jump up and down hard enough there’s no difference except some bits of shell in the goo. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/500 "2023-10-17T20:24:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > OK… Can you explain how that paragraph negates the legal system? No because it doesn’t despite SovCit claims. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Any explaining how they arrive at that? Yes. Someone online wrote it and sold them a script based on it. End of research. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=26)