# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/661 "2023-11-22T21:31:16Z")
_Beginning_? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/662 "2023-11-22T22:07:13Z")
Well, I don’t want to leap to any conclusions. Now excuse me, I have to find my tin foil hat. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/663 "2023-11-22T23:23:32Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > By participating in the protests, isn’t he creating joinder? It’s no longer creating joinder. It’s contracting with the State. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/664 "2023-11-23T00:08:20Z")
I use an aluminum colander instead of tinfoil. It lets the good mind control rays in, but keeps the bad ones out. Plus, you can’t really get tinfoil anymore. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/665 "2023-11-23T00:12:50Z")
Amateur! I use a stainless steel colander (may be even Krupp Stahl, I’m in Germany). That’s the stuff to let the right waves in and keep the wrong ones out. Aluminum, pah… ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/666 "2023-11-23T00:13:02Z")
And it’s great for advertising Pastafarianism! R’Amen! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/667 "2023-11-23T00:14:38Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > I use an aluminum colander instead of tinfoil. It lets the good mind control rays in, but keeps the bad ones out. Plus, you can’t really get tinfoil anymore. - The holes let _everything_ through. The proof is you think it keeps the bad rays out. You need two layers of foil. Shiny in blocks your thoughts while shiny out blocks the mind control. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/668 "2023-11-23T00:17:21Z")
The voices say you’re wrong, at least some of them say that. Do the two foil layers need to be bonded? Or is simple contact enough\> ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/669 "2023-11-23T00:18:24Z")
I submit to your noodly goodness! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/670 "2023-11-23T00:19:04Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > Do the two foil layers need to be bonded? Are you seriously asking if the layers need to create joinder? 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/671 "2023-11-23T00:21:13Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > Do the two foil layers need to be bonded? Or is simple contact enough\> You must look for the natural electronegativity of the metal foils. They have to be very different to build an electric field to ward off the bad spirits. Or so I was told in EE classes. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/672 "2023-11-23T00:28:56Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > The voices say you’re wrong, at least some of them say that. > > Do the two foil layers need to be bonded? Or is simple contact enough\> - Simple contact. The layers need to be able to move to stay aligned with the etherium fields. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/673 "2023-11-23T01:05:28Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > I use an aluminum colander instead of tinfoil. That is the WORST! Police use colanders as lie detectors. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/674 "2023-11-23T01:34:30Z")
> [In court last week, Johnatakis](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/22/taylor-james-johnatakis-guilty-jan-6-rioter) mounted his own defence, attempting to cite “sovereign citizen” ideology. As defined by the Anti-Defamation League, sovereign citizens form “an extreme anti-government movement whose members believe the government has no authority over them”. Johnatakis also said he had “repented all [his] sins” and the case should be “discharged”, but the judge, Royce C Lamberth, was not buying. > Telling Johnatakis his arguments were “bullshit” and “gobbledegook”, Lamberth said…etc Come now, Your Honour, stop being mealymouthed and tell us what you really think. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/675 "2023-11-23T02:15:32Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@GaryM](#): > > > > I use an aluminum colander instead of tinfoil. > > That is the WORST! Police use colanders as lie detectors. You see a tortoise. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t. Not without your help. But you’re not helping. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/676 "2023-11-23T02:21:55Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@GaryM](#): > > > > I use an aluminum colander instead of tinfoil. > > That is the WORST! Police use colanders as lie detectors. Come now, [this documentary indicates](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skxhii6VFdo) colanders can do far more than that, with the proper modifications. Astral imaging at the very least! [![](https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8496835711_9a5c4749bd_z.jpg) ](https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8496835711_9a5c4749bd_z.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/677 "2023-11-23T02:45:14Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Wow. I’ve been under the impression that your bog-standard sovcit doesn’t have an interest in the government. Why would he even CARE who gets inaugurated? Because they don’t have an actual political philosophy. What they’re looking for is conflict. And January 6, 2021 was a wonderful opportunity for them to do some violence, believing they would not be held accountable for anything. > [@](#): > > By participating in the protests, isn’t he creating joinder? You, just as I, would think. But that’s because we operate rationally. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Meanwhile, the guy who initially invited them to stay in the town, and who was arrested last month on assault charges has failed to turn up for his court date. A warrant for his arrest has been issued. What are the odds that he’s a sovereign citizen? No chance at all. It’s a damn certainty. > [@GaryM](#): > > I use an aluminum colander instead of tinfoil. It lets the good mind control rays in, but keeps the bad ones out. Plus, you can’t really get tinfoil anymore. There used to be a Chinese instructor at Defense Language Institute. The dude taught Chinese, was, IIRC, originally from China, and was definitely convinced the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco was spying on him via microwaves from that venue. To protect himself, he used a colander covered with aluminum foil whenever he was driving. I still don’t know why he thought the Consulate was only spying on him while he was ~~driving~~ traveling. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > And it’s great for advertising Pastafarianism! > > R’Amen! That made my day and it’s not even 11 a.m. yet! Seriously, I’ve never seen that before. But, of course, that’s the way a Pastafarian would close their prayer. > [@Princhester](#): > > > Telling Johnatakis his arguments were “bullshit” and “gobbledegook”, Lamberth said…etc > > Come now, Your Honour, stop being mealymouthed and tell us what you really think. One of the judges highlighted in the Youtube videos mocking the sovcit loons refers to said loons as _borogoves_ because they make as much sense as that poem. I think that’s a great term for them! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/678 "2023-11-23T02:52:31Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > One of the judges highlighted in the Youtube videos mocking the sovcit loons refers to said loons as _borogoves_ because they make as much sense as that poem. I think that’s a great term for them! - [Judge Middleton.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP2aYHda0Uo) It’s somewhere in this video. I’ll see if i can find it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/679 "2023-11-23T03:03:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Judge Middleton.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP2aYHda0Uo) > It’s somewhere in this video. I’ll see if i can find it. - Wrong video. [Here it is.](https://youtu.be/HgbRIVyhOPY?t=238) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/680 "2023-11-23T03:06:32Z")
That’s the judge! And a reminder: sovcits, er, borogoves may seem amusing, but, in fact, they are dangerous. The ones you see on the videos are the ones who have not perfected their antisocial and illegal behavior…_ **yet** _. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=35)