# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/681 "2023-11-23T03:18:12Z")
Calvin and Hobbes reruns are in the colander brain helmet arc this past week, note: [https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2023/11/17](https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2023/11/17) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/682 "2023-11-23T05:49:44Z")
I don’t get the willingness to just keep digging a hole. Even as a teenager being treated poorly by police (nothing major, speeding ticket kinda stuff) I knew to keep my trap shut and say, “Yes officer, thank you officer.” Any lip from me would only make my situation worse. > **[Capitol rioter gets sentence quadrupled after meltdown in court](https://www.salon.com/2023/11/22/capitol-rioter-gets-sentence-quadrupled-after-meltdown-in/)** > > Frank Giustino sentenced to three months after prosecutors initially sought a 21-day sentence prior to his antics. > Prosecutors recommended a four-month prison stint for Giustino. They had initially requested a 21-day sentence but pursued a longer term of incarceration after the massage therapist defiantly disrupted a June 23 court hearing. During that proceeding, Giustino dubbed his case “an absolute clown show of a prosecution,” used language that appeared to reference the sovereign citizen extremist movement’s believe that the U.S. government is illegitimate, and said, “Why don’t I issue a warrant for your arrest?” after the judge threatened to order one against him because of his courtroom conduct. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/683 "2023-11-23T06:17:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I don’t get the willingness to just keep digging a hole. Even as a teenager being treated poorly by police (nothing major, speeding ticket kinda stuff) I knew to keep my trap shut and say, “Yes officer, thank you officer.” Any lip from me would only make my situation worse. What you describe of your behavior of old is what’s known as rationale, albeit a bit rebellious. The sovcits are simply irrational. The prime indicator that is they buy into the sovcit nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/684 "2023-11-23T07:53:18Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > What you describe of your behavior of old is what’s known as rationale, albeit a bit rebellious. The sovcits are simply irrational. The prime indicator that is they buy into the sovcit nonsense. I getcha. Just seems to me you be nice to the people with the (proverbial) gun to your head. No matter how unfair or wrong you “think” it is you still say, “Yes sir/ma’am/officer/your honor. Thank you.” Your very future depends on how you behave. This is next level stupid. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/685 "2023-11-23T07:56:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > … One of the judges highlighted in the Youtube videos mocking the sovcit loons refers to said loons as _borogoves_ because they make as much sense as that poem. I think that’s a great term for them! They certainly do seem to be quite mimsy. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/686 "2023-11-23T07:57:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I getcha. Just seems to me you be nice to the people with the (proverbial) gun to your head. No matter how unfair or wrong you “think” it is you still say “Yes sir/ma’am/officer/your honor. Thank you.” Your very future depends on how you behave. > > This is next level stupid. Yep. And that level is called _irrational_. The real worry, though, is these irrational jerks are dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/687 "2023-11-23T19:48:27Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You see a tortoise. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t. Not without your help. But you’re not helping. Y’know, I’m beginning to regret coming to work for the Tyrell Corporation. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/688 "2023-11-23T23:00:36Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Y’know, I’m beginning to regret coming to work for the Tyrell Corporation. Don’t worry about it. This moment will disappear like tears in the rain. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/689 "2023-11-24T02:43:36Z")
Yep. Definitely time to head Offworld. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/690 "2023-11-24T03:05:35Z")
Musk is taking volunteers for the early Mars missions. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/691 "2023-11-24T03:31:25Z")
Not with _that_ guy, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/692 "2023-11-24T03:40:15Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Not with _that_ guy, thanks. - No way he’d make the trip himself. He _knows_ he’ll be killed and eaten. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/693 "2023-11-24T05:45:26Z")
In space no one can see your cosplaying manchild X-tweet. ---
**Author:** ![Hurrilon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@Hurrilon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hurrilon)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/694 "2023-11-24T14:03:53Z")
**Idle Thoughts** , if you have time on your hands, read the _Meads_ decision from the Alberta Court of Queen’s Bench. More than you will likely ever need to know about the SovCits. [https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html](https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html) Being an old retired guy, I read it. Kudos to that judge - brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/695 "2023-11-24T15:16:41Z")
I wouldn’t eat that. Nope. Not gonna happen. Huh uh. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/696 "2023-11-24T15:21:17Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I wouldn’t eat that. Nope. Not gonna happen. Huh uh. - What if he had an apple stuck in his mouth? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/697 "2023-11-24T16:29:53Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Perhaps not SovCits in the most traditional sense, but I would submit that so-called [Constitutional Sheriffs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Sheriffs_and_Peace_Officers_Association) are _at least_ adjacent, and in reality far, far closer to dangerous SovCit mentality than I am comfortable with for an elected LEO position. They are certainly SovCit adjacent, using the same kind of arguments, but there’s one key difference. A sheriff has actual power under the current system, so these guys are just asserting that they have more power than they actually do. They still fundamentally support the notion that “government has power”, they’re just disagreeing with which bits have the most power. SovCits would deny the existence of any such power, period. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/698 "2023-11-24T16:56:39Z")
Great, now apples are also ruined. Thanks a lot Coach. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/699 "2023-11-24T21:51:40Z")
Getting back to the topic. “Bullshit and gobbledygook” says the judge to a January 6 defendant and self-described sovereign citizen, and I say amen > **[Jan. 6 rioter who used sovereign citizen 'gobbledygook' at trial is found guilty](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jan-6-rioter-used-sovereign-citizen-gobbledygook-trial-found-guilty-rcna126236)** > > A jury convicted Taylor James Johnatakis on multiple charges, including assaulting officers. The federal judge overseeing his trial grew frustrated with his arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/700 "2023-11-29T16:59:43Z")
Queen Romana has apparently [returned to Richmound, Saskatchewan!](http://vice.com/en/article/4a35pb/qanon-queen-returns-saskatchewan-town-canada) _Romana’s back and you’re gonna be sorry_ _Hey la, hey la, the Queen is back_ "Her vehicles, entourage, and dogs are there,” one local wrote VICE News early Tuesday morning. “Whether the little weasel is there physically or at a follower’s home I cannot say for certain.” _No, I cannot forget from where it is that I come from_ _I cannot forget the people who love me_ _Yeah, I can be myself here in this small town_ _And people let me be just what I want to be_ The Queen brings harmony and tranquillity to any town blessed by her benficent presence, even if at times it seems that Canadian “nice” is being tested. "…it’s creating an atmosphere where they’re at each other’s throats. These conflicting viewpoints came to a boiling point at a town hall last week which ended with several townsfolk telling each other to “fuck off.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=36)