# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/701 "2023-11-30T19:53:24Z")
Shouldn’t that be “Fuck off, eh”? ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/702 "2023-12-01T16:28:21Z")
A sovereign lawyer, ’ “i” a “human woman” ’ sues her neighbour using, not the legal system, but some magical natural law that other people just don’t understand. Then threatens to sue the CBC when they come to interview as she had agreed to. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-lawyer-pseudolegal-lawsuit-1.7025394](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-lawyer-pseudolegal-lawsuit-1.7025394) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/703 "2023-12-01T16:53:32Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > A sovereign lawyer, ’ “i” a “human woman” ’ sues her neighbour using, not the legal system, but some magical natural law that other people just don’t understand. What’s really fucked up is that she’s an **actual lawyer**. She is employed in a legal firm. (For now at least, I wouldn’t be surprised if they dump her with this publicity; I sure wouldn’t want to use a legal firm with a total cuckoo on its roster.) This isn’t a case of an ignorant person being tricked due to their lack of knowledge of how the legal system works. This is a person who has actual training who decided to abandon all of that and embrace bullshit. I’m extremely curious to learn how that came about. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/704 "2023-12-01T17:31:19Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > What’s really fucked up is that she’s an **actual lawyer**. After the Law Society of BC is done with her, I hope she is a **former lawyer.** ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/705 "2023-12-01T17:40:43Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > She is employed in a legal firm. (For now at least, I wouldn’t be surprised if they dump her with this publicity; I sure wouldn’t want to use a legal firm with a total cuckoo on its roster.) I just looked up her law firm. It consists of her, an associate and an assistant. If I were the associate or assistant, I’d be polishing my resume. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/706 "2023-12-01T18:00:51Z")
Substituting “In jail” for the time spent with the firm because it sounds better. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/707 "2023-12-01T18:02:15Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I just looked up her law firm. It consists of her, an associate and an assistant. Ah, so it’s a “Better Call Saul” setup. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/708 "2023-12-01T21:07:30Z")
Cool Anne Elk explanation she offered: > [@](#): > > Arbabi responded: “when you ask i if i am Naomi Arbabi the answer is always no as Naomi Arbabi is an incorporated name and does not refer to a living breathing woman.” According to the affidavit, Arbabi expanded on her theory in another email later the same day, explaining that Naomi Arbabi was a “dead entity corporation” created by her birth certificate. “I, a woman, am not Naomi Arbabi, but Naomi Arbabi is the name i am called. There is a subtle but crucial difference between the two. Unfortunately, this is not common knowledge yet,” she wrote. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/709 "2023-12-01T21:17:28Z")
> [@Lewis Carroll](#): > > “The name of the song is called ‘Haddocks’ Eyes.'” > > “Oh, that’s the name of the song, is it?” Alice said, trying to feel interested. > > “No, you don’t understand,” the Knight said, looking a little vexed. “That’s what the name is called. The name really is ‘The Aged Aged Man.’” > > “Then I ought to have said ‘That’s what the song is called’?” Alice corrected herself. > > “No, you oughtn’t: that’s quite another thing! The song is called ‘Ways And Means’: but that’s only what it’s called, you know!” > > "Well, what is the song, then? " said Alice, who was by this time completely bewildered. > > “I was coming to that,” the Knight said. "The song really is ‘A-sitting On A Gate’: and the tune’s my own invention.” … ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/710 "2023-12-02T20:40:15Z")
The name of the name of the name is … A big and stupid game. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/711 "2023-12-03T19:09:26Z")
My brain hurts! ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/712 "2023-12-03T20:18:08Z")
I wonder if this will end up in the DSM VI in the future? Will it be its own diagnosis or an off shoot of some other disorder? ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/713 "2023-12-15T15:47:36Z")
So, yesterday at my job I had to go into the office to process physical checks that customers have mailed in. Someone returned a payment coupon _sans_ check, but they had written on the front of the coupon as if **it** was a check. Confusing – but they also affixed a stamp to it and the penny dropped for me – oh, this is that “I’m a Postmaster” bullshit. They also wrote on the check “Without recourse,” which is idiotese for “don’t blame me if this check bounces.” I noted their account with, “If customer phones in wanting to know why they still have a balance, please let them know that’s not how checks work, and what they sent in has been shredded, not accepted.” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/714 "2023-12-15T21:24:35Z")
The most shocking part of your story was the didn’t write “Accepted for value” ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/715 "2023-12-15T22:00:17Z")
I perused the whole document _very_ carefully, looking for that. We’ve received note that before (with the same result - shredded!), but nothing like this little production number. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/716 "2023-12-16T04:19:29Z")
Why are you shredding that stuff? IIRC, when I worked as a clerk at a collection agency, the agency kept whatever correspondence, no matter how nonsensical, to be used as proof the debtor was not making good faith effort in repayment. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/717 "2023-12-16T09:16:51Z")
Just a few days ago, I watched on Youtube a Canadian sovcit getting himself arrested for pulling that “I don’t need identification” nonsense on a Canadian border agent. After the sovcit got arrested, the agent pointed out to another agent that, although said sovcit said he refused to “make any contract with the government”, it turns out his fake license plate had the sovcit’s Canadian passport number on it. And you have to love this: the passport was not only valid and current, but the dude was using it. Thus the “discussion” with the border agent. I really wish those loony sovcits would come over here to the People’s Republic of China and try their theories on the Chinese police and courts. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/718 "2023-12-16T18:54:45Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Why are you shredding that stuff? IIRC, when I worked as a clerk at a collection agency, the agency kept whatever correspondence, no matter how nonsensical, to be used as proof the debtor was not making good faith effort in repayment. At a guess, from when I worked insurance claims, all documents get scanned into the system and kept as a digital copy, while the physical copies were shredded (except for certain correspondence that had to be kept for a legally mandated number of years). Some of the company records were taking up warehouses worth of space, and the old hands spoke of having to send requests to archives to pull up documents with intense reverse nostalgia - we were told we had no idea how easy we had it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/719 "2023-12-17T03:41:15Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Some of the company records were taking up warehouses worth of space, and the old hands spoke of having to send requests to archives to pull up documents with intense reverse nostalgia - we were told we had no idea how easy we had it. As a programmer, I will say that this is a two edged sword. Yeah, we have the original, umm… somewhere. If it’s digital, it can also be lost to the sands of time and updates. Sad, but true. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/720 "2023-12-17T03:52:03Z")
Oh, no question. But trust me, the sheer volume of documents going both ways for even a simple claim is huge. There were some documents as I stated, that had to be kept as hard copies for a period of years, but things that were _themselves_ copies of something else (police reports especially) are not in and of themselves super important to protect against every possible loss. And I cannot stress enough how nice it was to have it all in one place as it were. But, you’re 100% right, with new media and storage, there’s always new risks. Anyway, enough of the sidetrack, was just speculating as to why @Daithi_Lacha may have been shredding the documents after inspection. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=37)