# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ennui](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ennui/32/3396_2.png) [@Ennui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ennui)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/61 "2016-10-25T15:22:56Z")
One aspect of the sovcit sphere that simultaneously repels and amuses me if the grift. People frequently hand over stacks of “useless” federal reserve notes to learn the secrets of “you ain’t the boss of me.” When James Timothy (Tim) Turner wasn’t busy acting as the President of the Republic for the uNited States he was touring conference rooms in lower rent hotels across the country selling his “negative averment” methods for keeping yourself out of jail or avoiding taxes and charging good money to do so. Until he got locked up (in part) for not paying his taxes. “Judge” Navin Chandrea Naidu has been enjoying a pretty good run with this little scam, [Monitize COLB](http://www.monetizecolb.org/). Did you know your birth certificate is worth like eleventy billion dollars, the only hitch is how to get that money. Well Judge Naidu has it all figured out and all you need to do is send him money and get enough other people to do likewise and eventually you all receive a debit card you can withdraw $1K/day with. That’s $365,000 per year from an investment of $285. In a way it’s a perfect scam, Naidu isn’t in the US he has helpers who receive the money and then wire it to him (keeping a cut of course) and the people who fall for this sort of thing couldn’t pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel. It’s free money, to him at least. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/62 "2016-10-25T16:49:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Shall not be infringed! Shall not be infringed! Shall not be infringed!" But the Flag of the Admiralty Court is infringed. If it is not infringed then the Court must use the natural laws. SaiNt: of the clan CAD (c) Article IV Traveler on the InterWebs I do not bind myself to contracts as I have severed under UCC 1-105 No portion of this post shall create joinder with the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/63 "2016-10-25T22:07:21Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > If you listen to the very end, the judge mentions that several years ago some soveriegn citizens posted a $100 million judgement against him on his door. I have to wonder if they truly believed that they could collect on it. Those loons aren’t interested in collecting on it. It’s an attempt at intimidating the judge. As another poster mentioned, some sovcit loons have killed police officers. Posting the notice on the judge’s door wasn’t notice that he owed the loons money; it’s notice that he’s a target, that they’re expanding their circle of victims beyond the police. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/64 "2016-10-26T02:25:30Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > No portion of this post shall create joinder with the reader. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/65 "2016-10-26T02:37:05Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > No portion of this post shall create joinder with the reader. Could it create joints of reindeer, though? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/66 "2016-10-26T02:54:33Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > One of the unspoken tenants of SovCit is that everyone secretly agrees with them … Arrrgh! The word is “ **tenets** ”. Make an error like that and you risk [descending](http://www.wlwt.com/news/wlwt-investigates-man-claims-abandoned-homes-are-up-for-grabs/23152246) into the [dark territory](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-moves-into-home-while-family-is-away-claims-he-owns-it/) of “[adverse](http://abcnews.go.com/US/georgia-battling-sovereign-citizens-squatting-foreclosed-homes/story?id=11445382) [possession](http://theadvocate.com/news/neworleans/neworleansnews/14896436-65/four-arrested-for-criminal-trespassing-on-n-rampart-street-more-details-to-come)”. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/67 "2016-10-26T03:49:01Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > That was great. The judge was extremely respectful and patient and yet didn’t let the guy get away with anything. The judge is smart enough to know that all this SovCit stuff is just empty words. So when the guy started saying he wasn’t the “person” David he was the “individual” David, the judge did the smart thing and - in effect - just went with it. One could of course argue with the guy and tell him that this distinction is meaningless garbage, but that just leads down the rabbit hole of gibberish that is SovCit fucknuttery. Far better to just take the attitude that if he wants to be the individual David then let him be the individual David. And lock him up. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/68 "2016-10-26T03:57:24Z")
It would be interesting if a SovCit declared, _“I am exempt from the laws of the United States”_ and got Tasered in an altercation, and a cop remarked, _“The laws of the United States may not apply to you, but the laws of physics sure do.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/69 "2016-10-26T04:24:58Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It would be interesting if a SovCit declared, _“I am exempt from the laws of the United States”_ and got Tasered in an altercation, and a cop remarked, _“The laws of the United States may not apply to you, but the laws of physics sure do.”_ Or we could go with classic dialog such as: SovCit: “I do not consent, I do not consent!” LEO: “[It’s just been revoked](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L1DzScQ4VU)” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/70 "2016-10-26T04:42:42Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I would never have that much patience. If I were the judge, the video would have been about 3 minutes long. “I don’t care” “I don’t care” “Go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass ‘Go’” “Buhbye, next”. No, that’s the worst thing you can do. No matter how ridiculous a claim is, the judge needs to recognize it and address it. Otherwise you risk a mistrial. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/71 "2016-10-26T13:18:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, that’s the worst thing you can do. No matter how ridiculous a claim is, the judge needs to recognize it and address it. Otherwise you risk a mistrial. And this is how a lot of the stupid people get sucked in. Our system is set up such that it bends over backwards trying to accommodate people, because even an obvious loon may have a valid claim in a court case. So the judges’ attempts to find the grain of truth in the pile of chaff are spun as the SovCit “winning the case” using the legal voodoo. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/72 "2016-10-26T13:38:08Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > …Reality is a far off land to this people. My favorite legal citation for these cases: “Some people believe with great fervor preposterous things that just happen to coincide with their self-interest.” _Coleman v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue_ (7th Cir. 1986), 791 F.2d 68, 69. > [@watchwolf49](#): > > fringefringefringefringefringefrinfringefringefringefringefringefringefringe > fringeIt would help if we didn’t prosecute them in military tribunalsfringe > fringefringefringefringefringefringefringefrinfringefringefringefringefringe FTW! ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/73 "2016-10-26T14:39:28Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > So this really exists? This group of people really exists? I just learned about this today. Before tonight I had no idea of and never heard of sovereign citizens before. This is real? > The mind boggles. I am firmly convinced that, if this a real group, that they were either put here on earth for the sole purpose of entertaining others when they finally get the good smackdown that they so deserve…or… are real life masochists who deliberately troll others just so that they can get an abusive beatdown. To paraphrase Obi-Wan: It’s a level of stupidity that I have not seen in a long, long time. These are two of my personal favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnSd-E3Hb3Y ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/74 "2016-10-26T15:18:11Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Could it create joints of reindeer, though? Can it get the reindeer to make joints? ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/75 "2016-10-26T15:37:34Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Could it create joints of reindeer, though? The hard part is finding rolling papers big enough. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/76 "2016-10-26T15:54:45Z")
And getting the damn reindeer to hold still. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/77 "2016-10-26T15:59:46Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Can it get the reindeer to make joints? How do you think those things get high enough to fly? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/78 "2016-10-26T16:03:20Z")
… hard to keep lit … ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/79 "2016-10-26T16:44:03Z")
I was thinking of food. [Joints](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=486966), you know? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/80 "2016-10-26T17:29:12Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > I was thinking of food. [Joints](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=486966), you know? Sure, but you were given the straight dope. Stop complaining. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=5)