# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/981 "2024-04-26T17:12:12Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > and the whole window all the way down etc is bullshit, - Keeping the window up can interfere with communication due to the noise of passing traffic and reflections or tint can mask the movements of the driver and/or passengers. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/982 "2024-04-26T17:43:56Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > “Georgia law requires drivers to show their drivers license, registration, and proof of insurance upon request.” I’ve also heard people claim that they are only required to _ **show** _ law enforcement their DL, registration, and proof of insurance, and not hand it to them. They will roll down the window a couple inches for communication, and then hold these documents against the window. Not sure how legit this is. And depends on state law, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/983 "2024-04-26T17:48:56Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > It’s the same reason TV writers use Latin for witch’s spells: it sounds mystical. Accidental time travelers arrive in Ancient Rome: “Shoot him Clem before he finishes casting the spell!” ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2024, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/984 "2024-04-26T18:12:16Z")
Granted, there is a degree of practicality. That’s why I said all the way down. There is a happy medium between all the way down and only a crack. A cop once askedI roll my window all the way down after pulling me over several decades ago - and I was reluctant because my car at the time had _lousy_ heating, and it was in the single digits F. I asked if it was okay if I kept it at halfway because I was freezing and he laughed, saying “What the hell do you think I’m doing out here?!” and requested I still open it all the way, and not wanting to get myself in more trouble, I did so. [aside, got a fix-it ticket, my tail lights weren’t working right]. So yeah, there are degrees, and you can have valid reasons, be playing games, or any combination of the above. Back to the linked article though, the convicted SC was listed for multiple efforts to provoke a confrontation for Youtube fame, and that was brought up at the trial. So in that case, playing stupid games, winning stupid prizes. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/985 "2024-04-26T20:51:37Z")
No one was arguing that you don’t have to show your license to a cop when pulled over. I was arguing the window not being rolled down is not illegal nor the refusal to answer questions as brought up in the article. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/986 "2024-04-26T21:02:32Z")
And (with some quibbles about obstruction as stated earlier) he wasn’t _charged_ with anything else either. And while I’m not going to go out of my way to defend most cops abuse of authority, the fact that he had a clear _pattern_ of attempting to do so to solicit clicks is probably proof that he was, indeed, attempting to obstruct - that being the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/987 "2024-04-26T21:12:20Z")
And I’m sure that was it. I just didn’t like how the article was phrased considering on many videos that show abuse of cops, commenters will say things like, “Just do what the cop tells you.” i.e. F your Constitutional rights or get the law wrong on what is a lawful order or what is obstruction. ETA: And don’t get me started that SovCits, cops, content creators and commenters ALL get the “Right to Travel” wrong. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/988 "2024-04-26T23:40:36Z")
On _that_ we can most certainly agree. It’s a horrible feedback loop into the excessive deference and authority LEO is given, as well as just generally crappy, click chasing reporting. But that’s another thread! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/989 "2024-04-27T00:06:29Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Accidental time travelers arrive in Ancient Rome: > > “Shoot him Clem before he finishes casting the spell!” 😱 ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/990 "2024-04-27T14:10:18Z")
Well, Latin is how you get Redneck Zombie Torture Families. You don’t want Redneck Zombie Torture Families do you? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/991 "2024-04-27T18:27:35Z")
Here’s a story of a guy who didn’t get caught up in “excessive deference” to cops, opening fire instead. "We shot him graveyard dead " > **[Sovereign citizen dies in gunfight after shooting 2 Polk County deputies,...](https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2024/04/27/sovereign-citizen-dies-in-gunfight-after-shooting-2-polk-county-deputies-sheriff-says/)** > > Two Polk County deputies are in the ICU after being shot early Saturday by a man who Sheriff Grady Judd said was a sovereign citizen that was killed when backup deputies returned fire. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/992 "2024-04-27T21:03:25Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Here’s a story of a guy who didn’t get caught up in “excessive deference” to cops, opening fire instead. Why, that was downright **rude**! ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/993 "2024-04-27T23:17:49Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Well, Latin is how you get Redneck Zombie Torture Families. You don’t want Redneck Zombie Torture Families do you? Better than a merman. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/994 "2024-04-28T01:42:56Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > "We shot him graveyard dead " Honestly, although I have very little, if any, sympathy for “sovereign citizen” nonsense, the fact the coppers have and even use the term _shot graveyard dead_ is a bit concerning to me. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/995 "2024-04-28T02:07:29Z")
Aw, Ethel wasn’t that bad. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/996 "2024-04-28T04:18:02Z")
“Dead” is kind of a yes-or-no proposition, as I see it. The modifier “graveyard” seems superfluous. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/997 "2024-04-28T04:24:08Z")
Well, there’s dead and then there’s mostly dead. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/998 "2024-04-28T04:32:52Z")
Obligatory _Jackie Brown_ clip [(NSFW, only need to watch the first minute)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh-7WQr_daM). ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/999 "2024-04-28T17:57:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > “Dead” is kind of a yes-or-no proposition, as I see it. The modifier “graveyard” seems superfluous. Yes, Mr. Judd is the Dr. Phil of law enforcement. Some memorable ones I recall are " we’ll be on him like stripes on a convict" and “there’s no rap music in jail”. One of the local radio programs would always interview him after a particularly exciting bust just to hear his ‘Juddisms’. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2024, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1000 "2024-04-29T23:33:44Z")
More on the Polk County sov cit case. > **[Sheriff Grady Judd sheds light on deadly gunfight with ‘sovereign citizen’...](https://www.fox13news.com/news/sheriff-grady-judd-sheds-light-on-deadly-gunfight-with-sovereign-citizen-that-injured-2-polk-county-deputies)** > > Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd  provided more details after a man claiming to be a ‘sovereign citizen’ was killed early Saturday morning by deputies who say he opened fire on them, seriously injuring both, as they were investigating a suspicious... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=51)