# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1101 "2025-04-16T01:59:19Z")
On another forum we were talking about the deficiencies of Large Language Models and their tendency to produce imbecilic results at unexpected times. I suggested that LLM-based AI used for policing or criminal justice applications would be vulnerable to exploits reminiscent of Sovereign Citizen’s belief that uttering the right magic words make them untouchable by the law. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1102 "2025-04-16T02:11:34Z")
Damn. Sovereign AIs? I just got a shiver down my back. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1103 "2025-04-16T15:25:50Z")
@Lumpy: Interesting idea. Might well be a problem. I’ll point out a sorta sideway/opposite idea to yours. It seems the human Sovcits are more or less using LLM-like “reasoning” to arrive at their ideas. String words together in a goal-directed fashion and declare victory when you get to the period at the end of the sentence, regardless of what gibberish you’re rendered. Which of course is a pale parody of actual, you know, reasoning. But which idea might give insight to psychologist types thinking about how people get sucked into CT-style or MAGA-style or SovCit-style thinking. Namely that LLM-style “thinking” is _very_ low effort compared to actual conventional thinking. And requires accessing a _very_ small subset of a human’s natural lifetime experience. IOW, very, very easy for a profoundly mentally lazy person. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1104 "2025-04-16T15:53:29Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > IOW, very, very easy for a profoundly mentally lazy person. So…the overwhelming majority of humanity? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1105 "2025-04-16T16:46:29Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > So…the overwhelming majority of humanity? - Even the overwhelming majority of profoundly mentally lazy people know better. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1106 "2025-04-18T21:33:28Z")
Gimme a sec, I’ll find one and ask him… ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1107 "2025-04-18T22:50:34Z")
You know, I love to point and laugh at these people as much as anyone else, but God help me, I’m starting to feel a bit of sympathy for them. When American citizens are being grabbed by ICE and disappeared, or receiving form letters demanding that they leave the country immediately, it’s really tempting to want to stand up in some official forum and declare “I do not recognize this bastardization of laws and usurpation of authority by the so-called President of the United States”. I know that wouldn’t end well but dammit, I’m fantasizing more and more about doing it to Donald’s ugly orange face. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1108 "2025-04-18T23:35:27Z")
I’ve often wondered just who are these masked ICE officials who pull down a paycheck doing what they love: being evil and racist. I often wonder if the worst of the MAGA sand the Sov Citizens are what we’d find behind those masks. As for saying loud and clear in Rump’s face… would this do? > **[Judge’s Ruling Shooting Down Trump Appeal Stuns CNN Reporter: ‘Starkest...](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/judges-ruling-shooting-down-trump-appeal-stuns-cnn-reporter-starkest-warning-we-have-ever-seen/)** > > "This is the starkest warning that we have ever seen really from a federal appellate court, a conservative judge, toward the executive branch" ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1109 "2025-04-18T23:50:09Z")
Tomorrow, April 19th, is the 250th anniversary of “Patriot’s Day”… of “The Shot Heard Round The World”… of the time when the British marched on Concord and when The Minute Men fired on them. Paul Revere’s ride would have taken place 250 years ago today, the 18th. I have not done anything to celebrate this (other than order take out). Are any of you celebrating this? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1110 "2025-04-18T23:56:13Z")
Well, I read the poem again to remember my mother. I’ve stated before she is the only person I knew who could recite the poem by heart in it’s entirety. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1111 "2025-04-19T01:06:54Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > I have not done anything to celebrate this (other than order take out). Are any of you celebrating this? They’re doing a reenactment tonight and I’m about a mile away. Maybe I’ll stroll over there. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1112 "2025-04-19T01:09:49Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > You know, I love to point and laugh at these people as much as anyone else, but God help me, I’m starting to feel a bit of sympathy for them. When American citizens are being grabbed by ICE and disappeared, or receiving form letters demanding that they leave the country immediately, it’s really tempting to want to stand up in some official forum and declare “I do not recognize this bastardization of laws and usurpation of authority by the so-called President of the United States”. There’s a difference between protesting against the tyranny of the government and declaring that the laws don’t apply to you because you don’t want them to and know the magic words to exempt yourself from any legal consequence. Imagine if instead of standing up to the British, the founding fathers of the US just declared that the Magna Carta was written on the wrong kind of paper so they could ignore anything the King’s people told them to do. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1113 "2025-04-19T02:02:10Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > They’re doing a reenactment tonight and I’m about a mile away. Maybe I’ll stroll over there. Lucky…! I don’t know if you are in Mass (none of my business, don’t doxx yourself) but I’ve heard that they “do it right”. Enjoy, no matter where you are…! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1114 "2025-04-19T03:14:14Z")
Here in NE Ohio, I will be attending a public ceremony tomorrow at a local cemetery where several veterans of the Revolution are buried. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1115 "2025-04-19T03:23:52Z")
Therein lies a tale. I am in the Boston area; I’ve mentioned that many times before. I decided on a whim tonight to get pizza at a place in Cambridge, right near the border with Charlestown. That’s where my last post was from. So I looked up the schedule and I’d already missed all the excitement. I thought it would be later; who ever heard of the 9:00 ride of Paul Revere? But I decided to mosey over, anyway. The Church is in the North End of Boston; Paul was across the Harbor in Charlestown. There’s now a marina on the Charlestown side. As I was walking by, I saw three guys setting up their microphones to play music on the bow of one of the boats. Two guitars and harmonica, and one of them had a good voice, too. I stayed for a few songs and another guy walked up, and we got to chatting. He said he was in charge of some of the events, like a fife and drummer. After months of planning to get the timing just right, Paul arrived 15 minutes early. And he showed me some pictures of a drone show that was done over the Harbor. I told him I’d catch the next one. Oh, if you’ve ever wondered if you can really see two distinct lights in the steeple from so far away, I’m here to tell you you can. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1116 "2025-04-19T04:00:40Z")
I have a five greats grandfather who fought in the Revolution. He got court martialed too, althought the sentence was commuted when they needed soldiers so badly. He wouldn;t firght with the French soldiers because they were Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1117 "2025-04-19T11:22:04Z")
Besides, SovCits are inherently selfish. They don’t care if the rest of the citizenry is enslaved by the government, so long as they get what they think is theirs. Remember that the American Revolution was not about individual rights. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1118 "2025-04-19T13:43:13Z")
I am so happy and so proud; and yet I am so sad. This event was every bit as important as the 1976 BiCentennial in Philadelphia… and yet the self-important golf-fops of DC totally and completely ignored it. Instead they want some Orange Pumpkin parade in DC with jets and tanks, and the pissing away of billions of dollars… all to honor some grifting bronzer-faced shit gibbon. Ignorance, Thy Name is Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1119 "2025-04-19T14:43:18Z")
[![Google Photos](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOuhOXCphuPk6b9TReDuey4hYdMN8KnJ1xx95WDuEGfnt7RcvD1vqTP2lfg4Kz4XnOd9KKvISVHJQZxaOwAQuPF_xf9RqsPQ0QmzVwLbWrLZn6JvVs=w600-h315-p-k "New item by Eric Waldow") ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/nJoYndHnC3uXLW1J9) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1120 "2025-04-19T15:19:37Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > You know, I love to point and laugh at these people as much as anyone else, but God help me, I’m starting to feel a bit of sympathy for them. Would that sympathy extend to a sov cit whose car crashed into yours, and having to pay a huge repair bill because the sov cit lacked mandated insurance, believing that “maritime law” didn’t apply to “a person of the land”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=57)