# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1221 "2025-05-20T13:12:00Z")
The amount of craziness in the USA these days actually makes me begin to think the chemtrail CT or the fluoride-is-a-plot CT might have something to them. _Something_ is making Americans insane _en masse_. We just haven’t identified what it is. Actually we have: it’s social media mostly populated with homegrown grifters & hostile foreign government bots. But it’s more fun to consider it might be chemtrails or fluoride or ??? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1222 "2025-05-20T15:43:01Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > But it’s more fun to consider it might be chemtrails or fluoride or ??? Microplastics. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1223 "2025-05-20T16:38:40Z")
Microplastics, the revenge of Benjamin Braddock. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1224 "2025-05-20T16:44:19Z")
I thought Microplastics were small transforming Japanese toys from the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1225 "2025-05-20T16:46:13Z")
Nah, crackpottery has always been with us, the crackpots simply didn’t have the ability to form online communities previously. ETA: except when they formed their own religious communities, a common 19th-century American phenomenon. Case in point: [The Shaver Mystery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sharpe_Shaver). A series of pulp science-fiction stories presented as a CT of evil aliens secretly manipulating mankind drew vast numbers of replies from mentally ill people who insisted that they had encountered the same evil aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1226 "2025-05-20T16:55:36Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Nah, crackpottery has always been with us, the crackpots simply didn’t have the ability to form online communities previously. ETA: except when they formed their own religious communities, a common 19th-century American phenomenon. In the 20th century, they printed newsletters. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1227 "2025-05-20T18:14:46Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I believe (IANAL or legal expert of any kind) that this is a major reason why there is a reciprocity law among the states for driver’s licenses, where having a license in one state allows you to legally drive in every state. Otherwise, naturally you’d have to be cautious about crossing state lines if you end up in a place where your license is not recognized. IANAL either, but I believe that respecting other states’ licenses is more to do with Article IV, Section 1 of the US Constitution: > [@](#): > > Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. This is the same reason states recognize marriage licenses from other states. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1228 "2025-05-20T18:28:12Z")
> [@JeffB](#): > > IANAL either, but I believe that respecting other states’ licenses is more to do with Article IV, Section 1 of the US Constitution: Sure, but the reason why that was added to the Constitution in the first place was for the very reason I cited; people would be wary of going from one state to another if they had to be concerned with things like suddenly being unable to legally drive, or no longer being considered legally married. (Not that they had drivers’ licenses or even cars in the 1780s, obviously, but interstate trade and travel in those days was made difficult prior to the US Constitution.) Prior to the US Constitution, the US was a confederacy and it was a horrible mess. States had protectionist trade barriers between them, laws were totally out of sync with each other from state to state, and there was very literal cooperation between them due to the lack of a strong central government. Massachusetts was such a mess in particular that people started rebelling. That prompted them to try to form a stronger central government, to make it one nation instead of a bunch of what were effectively small allied independent nations, and so they made sure that the new government avoided those mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1229 "2025-05-20T18:47:09Z")
There is also a reciprocity agreement on driver’s licenses between all the US states and Canadian provinces. **[Not necessarily known to Georgia police.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-woman-arrested-jailed-in-u-s-for-driving-with-a-canadian-licence-1.4648561)**🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1230 "2025-05-20T18:48:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > There is also a reciprocity agreement on driver’s licenses between all the US states and Canadian provinces. Well, yeah, with Canada being the 51st state, Article IV, Section 1 applies to it as well. 😜 (But good reminder anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1231 "2025-05-20T19:03:57Z")
> [@JeffB](#): > > IANAL either, but I believe that respecting other states’ licenses is more to do with Article IV, Section 1 of the US Constitution: > > > [@](#): > > > > Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. > > This is the same reason states recognize marriage licenses from other states. Before [Loving\_v.\_Virginia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia), did states that outlawed interracial marriage merely penalize the marriage while acknowledging for legal purposes (inheritance, etc.) that a marriage contract was issued by another state; or did they flat-out refuse to accept them as legitimate? As for driver’s licenses I don’t think it’s so much that states are bound by the constitutional provision so much as bodies like the [Uniform Law Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Law_Commission) work to hammer out reciprocal agreements, plus the federal Commerce department setting standards that afaik all states adhere to for certifying drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1232 "2025-05-20T19:18:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > But it’s more fun to consider it might be chemtrails or fluoride or ??? > > Microplastics. My theory is that Covid and long Covid are causing more [deleterious brain changes](https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/study-sheds-new-light-severe-covids-long-term-brain-impacts) than previously discovered. The proudly unvaccinated seem to be more unhinged than ever since the pandemic began. Sov cit beliefs, chemtrail lunacy, conspiracy theories in general - it’d be interesting to compile research into whether lack of critical thinking capacity correlates with severe/repeated Covid infections, and whether there are markers to help us understand the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1233 "2025-05-20T19:27:48Z")
Covid vs. MAGA: What doesn’t kill them makes them crazier. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1234 "2025-05-20T19:34:30Z")
There are studies on the effects of long term covid that may back that up a bit: [Neurocognitive Impairment in Long COVID: A Systematic Review | Archives of Clinical Neuropsychology | Oxford Academic](https://academic.oup.com/acn/article/40/1/125/7689909) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1235 "2025-05-20T19:42:51Z")
That said, these SovCit nutters have been around a lot longer than COVID. Wesley Snipes was caught evading taxes and that was happening pre-9/11 even. COVID doesn’t help but these nutters don’t need a virus to buy into their lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1236 "2025-05-20T19:56:24Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > As for driver’s licenses I don’t think it’s so much that states are bound by the constitutional provision so much as bodies like the [Uniform Law Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Law_Commission) work to hammer out reciprocal agreements, plus the federal Commerce department setting standards that afaik all states adhere to for certifying drivers. With the legal notion for most of their existence being that DL’s are “a privilege not a right”, there used to be much larger divergence in standards and no duty of one state to comply with the standards of another, which was why there had to be explicit reciprocity laws passed rather than it just being assumed. The same is the case with many other state-issued licenses such as for professions or businesses. Heck even for “bearing arms” the states are not bound to recognize one another’s carry permits. In practice almost from the start the states allowed driving licenses from other states to be used for “passing through” purposes, with the understanding that if you were moving in you’d change license and registration within (X) days. The reciprocity agreements were more for the purposes of that when you move to another state already bearing a valid DL you would not have to test again. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1237 "2025-05-20T23:31:46Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > That said, these SovCit nutters have been around a lot longer than COVID. Wesley Snipes was caught evading taxes and that was happening pre-9/11 even. It’s since been pulled from YouTube but a 1941 Warner cartoon “Porky’s Snooze Reel” featured among other oddities a tax protestor insisting “you’re a sap to pay taxes!”; only for a camera pullback to reveal: [![](https://www.simbasible.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/0.png) ](https://www.simbasible.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/0.png) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1238 "2025-05-20T23:36:43Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > It’s since been pulled from YouTube Dailymotion still has it. [Pork’s Snooze Reel - video Dailymotion](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2k6gia) (It’s a colorized version but as far as I can tell, it’s the full clip.) The part called “Tax Expert Offers Financial Advice” starts at 1:20. There’s also a video on Facebook in the old black and white that is just the “tax advice” portion: > **[18K views · 481 reactions | Porky's Snooze Reel (1941, Bob Clampett/Norm...](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=262774754653961)** > > Some questionable tax advice courtesy of "Porky's Snooze Reel" (1941, directed by Bob Clampett and Norm McCabe). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1239 "2025-06-04T16:53:39Z")
Just for a change of pace, this is not a sovcit but in a way kinda the opposite, where one feels sympathy instead of scorn. Objectively, this is a drunk driver who got what she deserved, but, maybe it’s the old softie in me, but I feel rather sorry of this poor young girl. There’s obviously something very wrong with her and she’s traumatized by this traffic stop. I guess if there’s a message here it’s that a cop’s life is never easy – you never know what you’re gonna run into. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pwMd7f_e_3E/maxresdefault.jpg "Lawyer's Daughter Realizes Dad Can't Save Her from DUI") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwMd7f_e_3E) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2025, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1240 "2025-06-04T17:37:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Objectively, this is a drunk driver who got what she deserved, but, maybe it’s the old softie in me, but I feel rather sorry of this poor young girl. I’d rather keep my sympathy for the families of the people she kills while drunk driving. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=63)