# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1281 "2025-07-07T18:22:34Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > And why is it that the warmest climates seem to be associated with the highest incidents of insanity? While we always have the classic “Florida Man”, there’s also “Insane Texas Dude” and “Southern California Lunatic”. Have you ever watched the movie “Fargo”? The people in the north are just as crazy. It was based on a true story, the credits prove it! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1282 "2025-07-07T21:37:40Z")
IMO the willingness, nay desire, to live in cold climes is _prima facie_ evidence of at least one loose screw upstairs. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1283 "2025-07-07T22:11:28Z")
Waves from Hokkaido! Is have to agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1284 "2025-07-08T01:11:17Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > And why is it that the warmest climates seem to be associated with the highest incidents of insanity? While we always have the classic “Florida Man”, there’s also “Insane Texas Dude” and “Southern California Lunatic”. > > Have you ever watched the movie “Fargo”? The people in the north are just as crazy. It was based on a true story, the credits prove it! Nah, _Fargo_ offers **one** example. In warm climes, crazy is not an isolated case, it’s a way of life. Dave Barry frequently wrote about Florida crazies, Molly Ivins about Texas crazies. Where the entire country has a hot climate, you tend to have authoritarian dictatorships inclined to violence – El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc. Where it’s cool, you tend to have peaceful democracies – northern Europe, all the Scandinavian countries, Canada, etc. And of course my ancestral homeland, the crisp and cold area around the Bernese Alps in Switzerland after which I am named. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > IMO the willingness, nay desire, to live in cold climes is _prima facie_ evidence of at least one loose screw upstairs. Or just evidence that certain residents have a warm double layer of tri-coloured fur and appreciate the absence of gigantic bugs and the ability to frolic in the snow. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1285 "2025-07-08T02:50:14Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Dave Barry frequently wrote about Florida crazies, Molly Ivins about Texas crazies. Now, it’s not our fault northerners don’t have literary geniuses willing to make fun of the foibles of their neighbors. Even if they’re not always as colorful, you guys have plenty of loons up north. Granted, these are from the US, and it’s just what I could think of off the top of my head. > **[Michigan Militia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Militia)** > > The Michigan Militia is a paramilitary Michigan-based organization founded in 1994 by Norman Olson, a veteran of the U.S. Air Force. The group was formed in response to perceived encroachments by the federal government on the rights of citizens. It is part of the wider American militia movement. > At its peak in the mid-1990s, the Michigan Militia Corps claimed to have 10,000 members, although its membership was estimated to be several hundred by 2010. The Militia's main areas of focus are paramil... > **[Marvin Heemeyer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer)** > > Marvin John Heemeyer (October 28, 1951 – June 4, 2004) was an American automobile muffler repair shop owner who demolished numerous buildings with a modified bulldozer in Granby, Colorado, in June 2004. Heemeyer's machine was posthumously nicknamed the Killdozer. > Heemeyer held various grudges against town officials, neighbors of his muffler shop, the local press, and other Granby residents. Over about eighteen months, Heemeyer secretly armored a Komatsu D355A bulldozer with layers of steel ... > **[Hutaree](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutaree)** > > Hutaree /huːˈtɑːriː/ ⓘ was a militia movement group adhering to the ideology of the Christian Patriot movement, based near Adrian, Michigan, in the United States. The group formed in early 2006. The name "Hutaree" appears to be a neologism; the group's website says that the name means "Christian warriors", but an investigation by the FBI concluded the word does not have a Christian background. The group became widely known in 2010 after the United States FBI prosecuted them in federal co The Hu... > **[Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_plot)** > > On October 8, 2020, the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) announced the arrests of 13 men suspected of orchestrating a domestic terror plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer, the Governor of Michigan, and otherwise using violence to overthrow the state government. Some have labeled the attempt as an example of stochastic terrorism, where violent rhetoric by prominent figures inspired the plot. > Half of the suspects were tied to a paramilitary militia group that called themselves the Wolverin... > **[Ammon Bundy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammon_Bundy)** > > Ammon Edward Bundy (born September 1, 1975) is an American anti-government militant and activist who led the 2016 occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon. He is the son of rancher Cliven Bundy, who was the central figure in the 2014 Bundy standoff in Nevada regarding unpaid grazing fees on federally-owned public land. > In March 2020, Bundy created the far-right People's Rights network. During the COVID-19 pandemic, Bundy was arrested more than five times for protests and disr... But yeah, if any of them decided to head out of their house in February in their underwear, they wouldn’t last long enough for the cops to get there. It’s somewhat safer to do that sort of nuttiness in the warmer climes. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1286 "2025-07-08T03:31:40Z")
Be that as it may, none of those places have **[a well-established internet meme](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Man)** implying widespread craziness. I’m referencing this particular meme in retaliation for @LSLGuy implying that I, a fine upstanding Bernese Mountain Dog with a thick double coat of beautiful tri-coloured fur, somehow have “a screw loose” for preferring a crisp, cool climate like that of the Swiss Alps of my ancestral homeland. I so despise hot weather than in the summer I have the A/C set to 22.5C (about 72 degrees 'Murrican) and am sometimes tempted to set it even lower – 22.5 is a compromise between electricity bills and sanity. I’m not surprised that there’s a lot of craziness in hot climates – the heat could drive anyone insane! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1287 "2025-07-08T03:46:30Z")
Hehehe, yes. I’m from Texas, so the sun is my mortal enemy. As to the HVAC settings, 72F is about right. My uncle who lived in Lake Charles set his for 65F, but he was a wealthy man. And wow, Lake Charles is humid. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1288 "2025-07-08T11:39:20Z")
If you need your HVAC cranked to be comfortable, then move further north. I used the opposite appraoch; moving south until I rarely needed my heater. I’m thinking of getting a seasonal home further south or in the other hemisphere to escape the chill of Miami winters. The **real** reason for Florida Man being legendary is the law in Florida that makes all arrest reports a matter of searchable public record. So that provides an endless stream of clickbait fodder for listicle writers. Most states / provinces are much more restrictive about that stuff. I have no doubt that the police-involved hijinks of e.g. @wolfpup’s province are just as entertaining. And, _per capita_, just as common. The fact that Florida has roughly _one half_ the population of the entirety of Canada also affects matters. It takes Florida Men just two days’ work to equal the hijinks of Canada Men’s one. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1289 "2025-07-08T13:30:17Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If you need your HVAC cranked to be comfortable, then move further north. Alaska, northern Canada and Siberia can all be blazingly hot in the summer thanks to the extended daylight hours and the deep inland temperature extremes. You have to go north of the Arctic circle before the maximum summer temperature sees much amelioration. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1290 "2025-07-08T13:46:32Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > Dave Barry frequently wrote about Florida crazies, Molly Ivins about Texas crazies. > > Now, it’s not our fault northerners don’t have literary geniuses willing to make fun of the foibles of their neighbors. In defense of Northern writers, I would mention the late Mike Royko of Chicago and Jimmy Breslin of New York. Lord, i wish they (and Molly) were still around to comment on the various lunacies of the Sovereign Citizens and the Trump presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1291 "2025-07-08T14:00:18Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Where it’s cool, you tend to have peaceful democracies – northern Europe, all the Scandinavian countries, _Canada_, etc. [Um.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/13/freedom-convoys-legitimate-covid-protest-or-vehicle-for-darker-beliefs) ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1292 "2025-07-08T14:00:36Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Where the entire country has a hot climate, you tend to have authoritarian dictatorships inclined to violence – El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc. Where it’s cool, you tend to have peaceful democracies – northern Europe, all the Scandinavian countries, Canada, etc. And of course my ancestral homeland, the crisp and cold area around the Bernese Alps in Switzerland after which I am named. Well, Germany shares a border and a very similar climate with Switzerland, and you may remember 12 years when it wasn’t exactly a peaceful democracy… ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1293 "2025-07-08T14:22:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If you need your HVAC cranked to be comfortable, then move further north. Oh hell no. My brother lives in OKC, and they get too much winter for my tastes. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1294 "2025-07-08T14:58:56Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The **real** reason for Florida Man being legendary is the law in Florida that makes all arrest reports a matter of searchable public record. So that provides an endless stream of clickbait fodder for listicle writers. Most states / provinces are much more restrictive about that stuff. I have no doubt that the police-involved hijinks of e.g. @wolfpup’s province are just as entertaining. And, _per capita_, just as common. I really doubt that, judging from the sheer volume of news stories and wacky videos coming out of Florida, including many of the ones in this thread like the last one I recently posted. Dave Barry, who’s been living in Miami for over 30 years, wrote a book a few years ago called “Best State Ever: A Florida Man Defends HIs Homeland” the theme of which is that he enjoys living in Florida despite – or sometimes **because of** – its sheer comical non-boring wackiness, including the fact (his words) that Miami has the worst drivers in the US, and possibly the world. As he says in the introduction: > If states were characters on Seinfeld, Florida would be Kramer: Every time it appears, the audience automatically laughs, knowing it’s going to do some idiot thing … > > … To judge from the news, there is no end to the stupid activities that Florida men, and women, engage in. Quite often --probably because of Florida’s moderate climate --they choose to engage in these activities naked. In some other state, a person might say to himself, “I believe I shall pose as Superman by the side of the road!” But in Florida, that person is also going to say, “But first, I shall remove my pants!” 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1295 "2025-07-08T18:21:04Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Where it’s cool, you tend to have peaceful democracies – northern Europe, all the Scandinavian countries, Canada, etc. Because when I think “peaceful democracy”, I think Russia. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1296 "2025-07-08T18:38:29Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Because when I think “peaceful democracy”, I think Russia. Hmm… what about the estimated million dead in the war of aggression against Ukraine? Besides that, there are altogether too many former government officials falling out of windows, being poisoned, **[or being found shot to death](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7nvxzrvr0o)** or, like Alexei Navalny, mysteriously dying in prison, for me to consider Russia to be altogether peaceful. And if it’s a democracy, it must be a remarkable one because Putin apparently gets some 99% of the vote, making him the most popular leader in history despite his propensity for killing his citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1297 "2025-07-08T18:51:37Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Besides that, there are altogether too many former government officials falling out of windows, being poisoned, **[or being found shot to death](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7nvxzrvr0o)** or, like Alexei Navalny, mysteriously dying in prison, for me to consider Russia to be altogether peaceful. But it’s cold there so it must be. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1298 "2025-07-08T18:52:57Z")
Ahem, @Atamasama was being sarcastic, what with Russia as a Northern country never having been a democracy but totalitarian literally throughout its whole existence. ETA: ninja’d by @Atamasama themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1299 "2025-07-08T18:54:22Z")
And I acknowledge that there was no insistence that **all** cold countries are peaceful democracies. I just found it ironic that one of the worst in the world just happens to also be one of the coldest too. (Just think Siberia.) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2025, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1300 "2025-07-08T18:59:08Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Putin apparently gets some 99% of the vote, making him the most popular leader in history despite his propensity for killing his citizens. Nah, the Kims of North Korea have him beat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=66)