# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1341 "2025-07-13T02:02:11Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > They need to have a narration from start to end for their video online. Except the vids I’ve watched are unrelenting in how they mock them. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1342 "2025-07-13T02:25:37Z")
I guess my post was a bit ambiguous. The sovcits post the videos online with their magical recitations, then the mockers find it and add the mocking commentary. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1343 "2025-07-13T03:10:21Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > My understanding is that it depends on the state. Some have strong protections for tenants while others favor landlords. One of the ironies of our legal systems is that in many – perhaps most – jurisdictions it’s much easier to evict a property owner through foreclosure than it is to evict a tenant. The backwards logic here seems to be that poor vulnerable tenants need legal protection against evil landlords, but the rich fucks who actually own property can look after themselves. This has created a plague of “professional tenants” who persistently game the system to live rent-free for long periods, and so spooked landlords that it’s more difficult for honest folks to get rentals. Anyway, FTR, for those who didn’t watch that last video, Crazy Uncle is not a tenant, nor is he a property owner, despite his screeching to the police about “my property”. His sole legal right, if any, to continue living there is just the fact that he’s been allowed to live there for the past two years. The lease is actually held by the niece and/or her mother, who at the time was in rehab due to a car accident. Although the video covers his arrest, it’s for being abusive to the officers and is unrelated to the niece’s request to have him evicted. I’d pay good money to watch a video of him actually being removed from the place and served with a restraining order, but sadly, it’s unknown how events unfolded after this incident. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1344 "2025-07-13T03:29:32Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Anyway, FTR, for those who didn’t watch that last video, Crazy Uncle is not a tenant, nor is he a property owner, despite his screeching to the police about “my property”. His sole legal right, if any, to continue living there is just the fact that he’s been allowed to live there for the past two years. The lease is actually held by the niece and/or her mother, who at the time was in rehab due to a car accident. As was noted earlier in the thread, it depends on the state. We had a devil of a time evicting my sister from my mother’s house, even after my mother had died. She paid no rent, and had no legal arrangement to live there. But since her stuff was stored there and was staying there, we would have to go through the normal eviction process to remove her from the house. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1345 "2025-07-13T14:24:21Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > “This is fucking America. I’ll do anything I goddam wanna do.” > > MAGA or SovCit: You decide. Definitely a belligerent, angry ass who wants confrontation at any cost. Politics are probably secondary to jerkdom, though I doubt he was out ringing doorbells for Kamala Harris. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1346 "2025-07-13T14:39:30Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > And being told they have to haul twice the tonnage on half the coal. But quietly laughing as they steam past a diseisel that has run out of fuel. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1347 "2025-07-13T15:15:39Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > This has created a plague of “professional tenants” who persistently game the system to live rent-free for long periods, and so spooked landlords that it’s more difficult for honest folks to get rentals. Be careful of your sources. This is a conservative talking point. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1348 "2025-07-13T15:29:53Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Be careful of your sources. This is a conservative talking point. I think it is pretty well established that there have been and are currently abusing the eviction process to get months of no rent living. It is also accepted that it is governmental/judicial policy to not force people out of their homes except as a last resort after considerable due process. In one county, that incidentally advertised tax liens as a way to invest in their county’s real estate, I had applied for the treasurer’s deed and had waited over 6 months for them to process it which they would not do. They told me flat out that they would not seize someone’s home. I told them then I would file a writ of mandamus to get them to comply with the law. Wouldn’t you know it, a week later the lien and fees were magically paid off and I got the check from the Tresurer’s Office. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1349 "2025-07-13T15:31:00Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Be careful of your sources. This is a conservative talking point. Not entirely, there have been some cases of SCs or Moorish-Americans taking over homes. Likely not as rampant as portrayed by conservatives but it does happen. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1350 "2025-07-13T15:41:58Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > This has created a plague of “professional tenants” who persistently game the system to live rent-free for long periods, and so spooked landlords that it’s more difficult for honest folks to get rentals. > > Be careful of your sources. This is a conservative talking point. Just because it’s a conservative talking point doesn’t make it false. Horror stories about professional tenants have been all over CBC News. [These Ottawa landlords say they’ve fallen victim to the same ‘professional’ tenants | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/landlords-accuse-tenants-of-being-professional-1.7401499) [Rent-free: Well-dressed ‘professional tenant’ won’t leave Toronto apartment | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rent-free-well-dressed-professional-tenant-won-t-leave-toronto-apartment-1.3775136) [Ontario’s Landlord and Tenant Board isn’t working for anyone, so how do the parties plan to fix it? | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/ontario-s-landlord-and-tenant-board-isn-t-working-for-anyone-so-how-do-the-parties-plan-to-fix-it-1.7452392) [Feces, urine, mould: After 1-year eviction fight, Hamilton landlord gets back home needing $100K in fixes | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/ltb-eviction-ontario-landlord-home-damage-1.7496291) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1351 "2025-07-13T16:12:06Z")
I don’t think the conservative talking point is that it’s possible to abuse eviction protection; rather thar it only exists for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1352 "2025-07-13T16:20:08Z")
And that hordes of pet-eating immigrants who poured through Biden’s open borders are abusing the process right in your hometown. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1353 "2025-07-13T17:28:06Z")
Hey, decades ago the underground comic “The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers” repeatedly highlighted the low priority the Freaks assigned paying the rent or utilities. If it was ever a question of dope versus ~~the rent~~ anything else, dope always won. > “(sigh) Evicted for non-payment of rent again”. > “It took them **four** months this time!” ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1354 "2025-07-13T18:20:19Z")
Well, as they say … [![](https://scontent.flhr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/489862304_2021514198372138_3359396444477195940_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=33274f&_nc_ohc=z1cSmfhyWP0Q7kNvwEkAj6V&_nc_oc=AdlB918EkJ0n7OFvswR1j1HEY6EAwfDQXQH5ZyAq3R1gpX4_FthvVFLNuGzFkQiV65A&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr1-1.fna&_nc_gid=jANiFr_idd_KSvw93JvprQ&oh=00_AfRqZ0oSEHkGrz0JELIxdOjoN68V9JELsUFoLTSfFSKWfQ&oe=6879CA8C) ](https://scontent.flhr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/489862304_2021514198372138_3359396444477195940_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=33274f&_nc_ohc=z1cSmfhyWP0Q7kNvwEkAj6V&_nc_oc=AdlB918EkJ0n7OFvswR1j1HEY6EAwfDQXQH5ZyAq3R1gpX4_FthvVFLNuGzFkQiV65A&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr1-1.fna&_nc_gid=jANiFr_idd_KSvw93JvprQ&oh=00_AfRqZ0oSEHkGrz0JELIxdOjoN68V9JELsUFoLTSfFSKWfQ&oe=6879CA8C) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1355 "2025-07-13T18:50:57Z")
But do you really want to look like “Freewheelin’ Franklin”? Or for that matter, like the Crazy Uncle celebrated upthread? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1356 "2025-07-13T21:18:38Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But do you really want to look like “Freewheelin’ Franklin”? I’ve never been a recreational drug user, but he _does_ look pretty happy. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1357 "2025-07-13T21:24:48Z")
It’s been going on for awhile. [“Death by a thousand paper cuts”](https://www.shawlocal.com/2013/12/03/sovereign-citizen-creates-havoc-for-unsuspecting-landlords/a60xvlk/) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1358 "2025-07-14T02:16:29Z")
If I learned anything from all the landlord-tenant cases I saw in court, it’s that I never, _ever_ want to be landlord. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1359 "2025-07-14T03:15:59Z")
Only thing worst apparently is AirBnB it out. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1360 "2025-07-14T11:07:13Z")
My parents and two siblings with over 500 tenant-years past them (over the past 20 years) and a combined $50M+ net worth to show for it would beg to differ. And the most successful has been operating in one of the most tenant friendly states, while complaining for 20 years that it’s impossible to make money as a landlord in that socialist dystopia. He keeps racking up the unit count and getting his money out in 5 years. But it’s a full time job for two people, plus hiring a bunch of professionals (not all of whom are licensed and insured). It’s the accidental landlord or the one who thinks it is easy passive income that is the one who gets burned most of the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=69)