# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/121 "2016-10-27T18:43:47Z")
Doesn’t law enforcement consider Sovereign Citizens to be one of their biggest threats? I could have sworn I read that somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/122 "2016-10-27T18:54:12Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > You’re a loony. He refuses to be tarred with the epithet “loony” just because he has a pet half-bee named Eric. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/123 "2016-10-27T19:11:45Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Well, ideally, in a democracy, governmental authority comes from the consent of the governed - but of course these yahoos will say they don’t (and never did) consent. And fair is fair, that is their right. They \*can \*not consent to live by the laws of the society they live in. If you believe in government by consent, you gotta respect absence of consent. The problem is that SovCits are, in fact, moral midgets. They don’t want to take their decision to its actual end, viz. either living as \*bona fide \*outlaws or self-sufficient cave survivalists or leaving the country altogether and forming their own community from scratch on some oil platform somewhere in international waters or somesuch, as has been done. They want to mooch all they can from The System (be it in terms of actual financial assistance or simply benefiting from what society gives them, that is to say infrastructure, technology, food, safety and protection of the law), but give nothing whatsoever in return and do whatever the fuck they please. In short, they want to eat their cake, have it, fuck it and bum a cigarette off it too. A child knows that’s not how shit works. Hell even \*cats \*do, and leave the token pile of mouse guts in your lingerie drawer once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/124 "2016-10-27T19:29:58Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > And fair is fair, that is their right. They \*can \*not consent to live by the laws of the society they live in. If you believe in government by consent, you gotta respect absence of consent. > The problem is that SovCits are, in fact, moral midgets. They don’t want to take their decision to its actual end, viz. either living as \*bona fide \*outlaws or self-sufficient cave survivalists or leaving the country altogether and forming their own community from scratch on some oil platform somewhere in international waters or somesuch, as has been done. They want to mooch all they can from The System (be it in terms of actual financial assistance or simply benefiting from what society gives them, that is to say infrastructure, technology, food, safety and protection of the law), but give nothing whatsoever in return and do whatever the fuck they please. In short, they want to eat their cake, have it, fuck it and bum a cigarette off it too. > > A child knows that’s not how shit works. Hell even \*cats \*do, and leave the token pile of mouse guts in your lingerie drawer once in a while. Kudos for this. I take my hat off to you, sir! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/125 "2016-10-27T19:59:50Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > You’re a loony. I’m a free loony on the land! The maritime code says so! And I am a legal entity, not a person, or maybe it’s the other way around. Anyway, you owe me $300,000, as collateral for the national debt. In GOLD! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/126 "2016-10-27T19:59:50Z")
Here is how crazy these people are: Ryan Bundy, one of those arrested for the take-over of the wildlife refuge in Oregon, is in jail awaiting trial (jury currently deliberating). He is [outraged that he is denied his gun](http://crooksandliars.com/2016/05/ryan-bundy-wants-his-guns-back-while). _In jail_. _All of my First Amendment rights are being violated. My right to freedom of religion is being violated. I cannot participate in religious activities and temple covenants, and wear religious garments. […] My right to freedom of speech is being hampered by monitoring and recording. My right to freedom of assembly is being violated; I am not allowed to see my brother and move about. Yesterday, I attempted to discuss these issues with the U.S. Marshals, and they said that these were simply the jail rules. […] My Second Amendment rights are being violated. I never waived that right._ ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/127 "2016-10-27T20:20:50Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > OMG, that is pure gold. Thank you for that link. Glad you like it. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/128 "2016-10-27T20:21:06Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > …They want to mooch all they can from The System (be it in terms of actual financial assistance or simply benefiting from what society gives them, that is to say infrastructure, technology, food, safety and protection of the law), but give nothing whatsoever in return and do whatever the fuck they please. In short, they want to eat their cake, have it, fuck it and bum a cigarette off it too… On a similar note: “…Defendant is a citizen of this state unless and until he establishes residency in another state, or in another country. He is a citizen of the United States unless and until he undertakes those steps provided under federal law for revocation of citizenship, and, incidentally, subjects himself to deportation. Sections 1229 and 1481, Title 8, U.S. Code; see, also, \*Afroyim v. Rusk \*(1967), 387 U.S. 253. Clearly, defendant wishes to have his cake of citizenship and eat it too. He wishes to live in this state, drive on its roads, walk on its paths, be protected by its Constitution, laws, courts and officers, and enjoy all of its rights and blessings, while shirking its responsibilities — including the responsibility to pay his lawful debts. This is repugnant to both the letter and spirit of the law, and this the court will not permit him to do…” From paragraph 28 here: [https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/ROD/docs/pdf/98/2002/2002-Ohio-7444.pdf](https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/ROD/docs/pdf/98/2002/2002-Ohio-7444.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/129 "2016-10-27T20:22:04Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > A truly hilarious extract from your article: > > > [@](#): > > > > David Wynn Miller appears to be the first US guru active in Canada, coordinating his activities with an early Canadian OPCA guru, Filepe Marcel Naudi, a.k.a. “Bruce Stellar.” Miller’s techniques are comparatively uncommon in Canada and are notoriously complex and peculiar, even for this domain. “Millerese” materials use a highly stereotypic and peculiar language structure, “Quantum-Language-Parse-Syntax-Grammar.” Miller himself is a bizarre figure. He introduces himself as “David Wynn Full Colon Miller.” A former machinist and welder, Miller claims to have become the king of Hawaii after he turned Hawaii into a verb. Miller says he is fluent in numerous languages, has an IQ of 200, and that he has not aged since he died and was resurrected at age 25. Miller appears to be the source of the ubiquitous dash colon naming motif. He says this variation on a name transforms a human into a “prepositional phrase,” which is purportedly outside state authority. > > If I didn’t know better I would swear this stuff was written by Robert Anton Wilson or Douglas Adams. Ah yes, the colon people. I know them, Horatio… ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/130 "2016-10-27T20:39:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’m a free loony on the land! The maritime code says so! > > And I am a legal entity, not a person, or maybe it’s the other way around. Anyway, you owe me $300,000, as collateral for the national debt. In GOLD! > > Regards, > Shodan But, my flag has a gold fringe on it. So there!! ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/131 "2016-10-27T22:19:42Z")
Haven’t read past the OP, but I _had_ to post [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pBougV1JK4) from ‘With Bob & David’ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bobo\_blesinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecae2f/32.png) [@bobo\_blesinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobo_blesinger)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/132 "2016-10-28T00:00:42Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > They seize the means of reproduction. You mean like what Donald Trump claimed to do on that Access Hollywood video? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/133 "2016-10-28T01:48:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Miller claims to have become the king of Hawaii after he turned Hawaii into a verb. Miller says he is fluent in numerous languages, has an IQ of 200, and that he has not aged since he died and was resurrected at age 25. Somehow that first sentence seems more insane than the latter. Yes, even the attempt to claim he’s immortal. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/134 "2016-10-28T01:51:39Z")
I thought “hawaii” was a greeting. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/135 "2016-10-28T03:12:28Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Somehow that first sentence seems more insane than the latter. Yes, even the attempt to claim he’s immortal. Weirdly enough, I agree. There’s something passé about claims of immortality and resurrection. But becoming king of a place by turning it into a verb is not only insane, it’s imaginatively insane. And it genuinely sounds like the type of slightly scholarly joke that someone like Douglas Adams would have come up with. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/136 "2016-10-28T04:06:22Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I thought “hawaii” was a greeting. I think that’s “Aloha.” Or is it “Chumbawumba”? I forget. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/137 "2016-10-28T04:16:15Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I think that’s “Aloha.” Or is it “Chumbawumba”? I forget. Everything sounds the same after the whiskey drink chased by the vodka drink. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/138 "2016-10-28T04:24:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I think that’s “Aloha.” Or is it “Chumbawumba”? I forget. No, “Aloha” is a town in Oregon (the “h” is silent). I was thinking of those old-school stand-up comedians who bound out onto the stage saying “_Hawaii, hawaii, hawaii_!” ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/139 "2016-10-28T14:51:01Z")
Let’s Earth this place! I am now your king. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/140 "2016-10-28T15:24:43Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Let’s Earth this place! > > I am now your king. No, you just told the crew to rewire the electrical to code in an old house in England. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=8)