# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 76
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1501 "2025-08-02T19:09:16Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > [Here’s a good example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttfKum235Rg)of someone who knows their rights. And here’s another one: Dude is asserting his “rights”, including refusing to roll the window down so the police officer can talk to him. It even includes the famous incantation, “am I free to go?”, and just general persistent lack of cooperation. Let’s see how this turns out for him. We later find out that his stated reason for his lack of cooperation is that, according to the dude, for some strange reason every time he gets pulled over he seems to get about half a dozen charges, for which he blames the cops. Tbe video is also notable for the fine police work by canine officer Riko! 🐶 [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/UjCiqlFvkZU/maxresdefault.jpg "When You Ask for Supervisor, But Get a K9 Instead") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjCiqlFvkZU) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1502 "2025-08-02T19:13:00Z")
For those who come here for the entertainment, here’s a sovcit setting a new record in stupidity. He speeds 70 mph in a 40 zone, but before handing over his license, he requires the police officer to fill out a form that the lunatic hands him, along with a pen. Spoiler: the officer ignores the form, which is straight out of sovcit fantasy-land, and continues to ask for the lunatic’s driver’s license. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3dnNXpVN-gQ/maxresdefault.jpg "When Flipping the Script on the WRONG Cop Backfires in Spectacular Fashion") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dnNXpVN-gQ) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1503 "2025-08-02T19:17:50Z")
Here’s a Moorish sovcit who eventually has enough of the cop’s questions, and just takes off. The video has the added feature of showing a new device called the “grappler” in action, which has been very effective at ending police chases with no damage or injury: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/2-fjVZQxPWg/hqdefault.jpg "Moorish Sovereign Citizen Plays FAFO With The No-Nonsense Parma Police Department") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-fjVZQxPWg) Some interesting info about how the grappler works: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1gWvpCD9sBo/maxresdefault.jpg "Behind the technology helping law enforcement stop cars on the road") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gWvpCD9sBo) ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1504 "2025-08-02T20:21:11Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > And here’s another one: > > Dude is asserting his “rights”, including refusing to roll the window down so the police officer can talk to him. It even includes the famous incantation, “am I free to go?”, and just general persistent lack of cooperation. Let’s see how this turns out for him. His behavior goes far beyond asserting his rights. And those deputies actually had probable cause. Totally different scenario. It’s not a good example of why people shouldn’t assert their rights. It’s a good example of a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1505 "2025-08-02T20:25:56Z")
To keep it simple: If someone uses legal rights in a wrong way, that in no way makes those legal rights wrong. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1506 "2025-08-02T20:44:02Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > And here’s another one: > > > > Dude is asserting his “rights”, including refusing to roll the window down so the police officer can talk to him. It even includes the famous incantation, “am I free to go?”, and just general persistent lack of cooperation. Let’s see how this turns out for him. > > His behavior goes far beyond asserting his rights. And those deputies actually had probable cause. Totally different scenario. It’s not a good example of why people shouldn’t assert their rights. It’s a good example of a moron. Actually, I sort of agree with you here, but I didn’t (and don’t) want to continue this argument as it’s a hijack and other posters are getting tired of it. But my objection to your example is that the police officer involved was being an ass and in fact corrupt. A cop being flipped off by a random teenager should have the maturity to just ignore it, absent actual criminal activity. Furthermore, that particular cop turned off his bodycam during part of the encounter, which is strictly against regulations when interacting with someone in an official capacity. But my basic point is that the vast, vast majority of police officers are **not** corrupt, especially in the current era of bodycams, and that in general, the constant assertion of rights runs the risk of escalating hostilities. The place for that is the courtroom, not the roadside, where cordial cooperation is generally the best course of action. Let’s please drop this now and go back to mocking sovcits. I especially like the one where the sovcit hands the officer a form to fill out, helpfully also providing a pen! It’s one of the more comical ones I’ve seen in a while. The guy’s picture should be in the dictionary under the definition of “clueless”! 😁 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1507 "2025-08-02T23:10:55Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But my basic point is that the vast, vast majority of police officers are **not** corrupt, especially in the current era of bodycams, I’ll argue that “corrupt” isn’t the right word; “authoritarian” is. And while I mostly agree w your assertion that good policing far outnumbers bad, I’ll also point out that all policing is local. Where you or I live they might be 95% good & 5% asshats w guns. Where poster X lives, they might equally be 5% good & 95% asshats. Guess what’s different about most of your/ my encounters vs. their’s? Big difference in pleasantness between being the blind monk holding the elephant’s trunk vs. his penis. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1508 "2025-08-02T23:31:50Z")
What’s important to remember is a central tenet of our justice system: Better that a thousand criminals go free, than a single innocent person is inconvenienced. It’s the linchpin of our democracy. ---
**Author:** ![ByuBilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@ByuBilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ByuBilly)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1509 "2025-08-05T16:14:44Z")
You should maybe Google Frank and the Brady list and what a corrupt lying cop he famously is before you praise him wolfpup… A fellow canadian who grew up with cops and doesn’t quite have the warm fake fuzzies you seem to have for them… Frank is possibly the number one example of a bad lying corrupt cop used online by auditors etc… Sov cit fine laugh it up… Cops going overboard regularly… kinda avoiding the topic eh? One of these things is “worse” than the other… one of these things is almost harmless (to the tune of “one of these things is not like the other”) ---
**Author:** ![ByuBilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@ByuBilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ByuBilly)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1510 "2025-08-05T18:39:03Z")
So you haven’t ever heard of first amendment auditors whether canadian or usa based I take it either? Familiarize yourself. You might just learn something… May I suggest Sean Paul first… Long Island Audit. He tends to stay calm. The guy who just stays silent is hilarious as well… There are literally thousands of auditors with millions of videos and are ubiquitous I find it hard to believe you aren’t aware of their existence without wilfull ignorance. JFA if you want a loudmouth who unfortunately for the police considering the amounts of lawsuits lost to JFA knows his stuff. I recommend him. I come from a large family of cops , I know exactly why it is they act like an organized crime gang (hint… cuz they are one…) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1511 "2025-08-05T19:11:38Z")
> [@ByuBilly](#): > > So you haven’t ever heard of first amendment auditors whether canadian or usa based I take it either? Familiarize yourself. - I have. The ones I see deliberately provoke a response by being loud, obnoxious and creating a disturbance in order to garner clicks and that sweet Youtube money. They are required to obtain signed permission from everyone they film if they intend to monetize the footage. Minors cannot be filmed without parental consent. They get in peoples’ faces, falsely accuse them of interfering with 1st amendment rights and try to film personal ID or information, likely to commit theft or identity fraud. ---
**Author:** ![ByuBilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@ByuBilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ByuBilly)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1512 "2025-08-05T19:39:08Z")
Name one…I also note you make the same accusations against them that many officers make without evidence as well. I’ve seen one auditor do what you claim and he lasted about 2 months… I watch tons of them. So plz name one. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1513 "2025-08-05T19:40:24Z")
Frank. ---
**Author:** ![ByuBilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@ByuBilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ByuBilly)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1514 "2025-08-05T19:41:18Z")
Frank is a cop, who is a known perjuror, why would you think that is a good one? He IS a cop for one and he isn’t an auditor. Omg does Frank post on the SDMB and are you him? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1515 "2025-08-05T19:42:22Z")
I didn’t mean _that_ Frank. The _other_ Frank. ---
**Author:** ![ByuBilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@ByuBilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ByuBilly)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1516 "2025-08-05T19:43:06Z")
Nice try , got his channel or any actual information other than vague hints? Frank at …. hrm? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1517 "2025-08-05T20:03:48Z")
Explain why they need to conceal their identity while ganging up on a disabled woman. > **[Brentwood post office fight: 'First Amendment defenders' get in fight with...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNZN9M3G0d4%2F)** > > A fight broke out at the Brentwood Post Office, between a woman with a cane, a bystander and an internet video crew. The fight led to the bystander getting p... Look, masked men who demand they have a right to film students without permission. > **[VIDEO: Cave Creek school disrupted by mysterious auditing group](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EBZWXYUvqc%2F)** > > A Cave Creek school is disrupted by a masked man with a video recorder. Members of 'DragonFire Auditing' make it a practice to enter public offices and recor... Look, trespassing and ignoring poster 7 [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/EG6DO9G1so4/maxresdefault.jpg "CLOWN SHUTDOWN AT THE USPS - Billings Montana Post Office - First Amendment Audit - Amagansett Press") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG6DO9G1so4&t=16/) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1518 "2025-08-08T16:21:08Z")
[Good case going on](http://fox19.com/2025/08/08/cincinnati-developer-arrested-court-says-hes-trying-sovereign-citizen-tactics/) in Indiana, where a successful Cincinnati developer is laying down a mess of paper on a court hearing traffic and drug charges against him. It’s replete with sovereign citizen wackdoodlery, including a bogus license plate, “private” traveling and being a “living man” not subject to the justice system. Even worse, authorities apparently haven’t paid the $500,000 in gold demanded for detaining him. > [@](#): > > Only after being asked “approximately 13 different times” did the driver say he went by “Bozo.” Hard to argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2025, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1519 "2025-08-08T17:01:36Z")
A story from the LA Times details how sovereign citizens place liens on their enemy’s property as a means of revenge and black mail. Their targets are often government officials. In some places, like California, liens can be placed on property with essentially zero proof. Pay your $5 filing fee, and it is done. To get the lien removed the target may have to pay thousands in lawyer and court fees. The owner of the property with the lien can have issues with their credit and selling the property. This isn’t a new thing, as they’ve been doing it for decades. Sometimes there are also consequences, and occasionally the sovereign citizens end up going to jail for fraud, perjury, or whatever. They do seem to really operate under the idea that laws are for everyone else. (Original article is behind a pay wall, but it’s been picked up by the wire services, so here is a link which is probably free to read.) > **[With fake liens, antigovernment agitators aim to damage political opponents'...](https://www.dailycamera.com/2025/08/07/inside-the-fringe-movement-teaching-americans-to-punish-officials-with-fake-debt-claims/)** > > Financing statements — meant to record legitimate business liens — are now a vehicle for conspiracy-laced claims, trillion-dollar demands and vendettas against politicians, businesses and public employees. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2025, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1520 "2025-08-08T17:11:11Z")
Many states have passed laws making lien-filing much harder, vastly increasing the penalties for fraudulent liens, and reducing the obstacles to having bad liens lifted. Sounds like CA is behind the times on this obvious countermeasure to SovCit nuttery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=75) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=77)