# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 79
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2025, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1561 "2025-10-13T18:55:55Z")
AKA “Fight or Flight” ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2025, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1562 "2025-10-13T19:59:51Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Actually, most of the folks who start car chases are thinking Around here, and probably many other places, we have a problem with late night street racing. Those people run from the cops, because they are thinking, “the cops are not supposed to chase us, and if even if they do, they won’t catch all of us.” This results in a feedback loop, in which the cops don’t do anything about it, because they can’t catch anyone. If the cops breakup an event, the racers will just regroup next jurisdiction over. This is a pretty far divergence from Sov Cit, because as much as the street racers are behaving anti-socially, they’re going it about it quite intelligently, and not relying on magical thinking. Instead of a “Private Vehicle” license plate, they just remove their legal one for the event, and put it back on next morning. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2025, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1563 "2025-10-14T12:56:10Z")
Can’t say if this Russian dude has bought into the full SovCit insanity, but he believes that he doesn’t have to do anything the police tell him to do, and prefers to just leave the scene. Repeatedly. This is an entertaining 8-minute video that expresses the concept of “escalation”! Entertaining, yes, but those cops seem to be really bad at “boxing” a car in. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2025, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1564 "2025-10-14T14:04:07Z")
Reminds me of the old joke. “We have no idea how the perp escaped - we had all the exits covered. Maybe he went out of an entrance.” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2025, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1565 "2025-10-15T14:50:41Z")
From the “sovereign citizens are harmless” files (this is from an X post by sov cit researcher Dr. Christine Sarteschi): > [@](#): > > Sov cit case: David Douglas, a resident of the Sparta area in Christian County, Missouri, is facing multiple misdemeanor traffic-related charges. Douglas appeared in court on October 8, 2025, dressed in 18th-century Scottish garb (including a kilt), where he disrupted proceedings with sov cit ideology before walking out. > > Told the judge he was making a “special appearance,” swore oath “under Creator’s Watch, penalty of death and perjury,” demanded jury trial, declared “no controversy, I leave in peace.” > > Stems from a traffic stop, no license, sov cit plates, no insurance, refused to exit vehicle. > > Officers found loaded Glock 27 .40 caliber pistol + two extra magazines in console, that he was reaching for. I saw one online news story about this guy and would link it, but it’s accessible only to subscribers to the Christian County (MO) Headliner News, and I doubt that many Dopers would be willing to subscribe just to see a photo of this wacko in his kilt, though X users can find it. \*in a move that will surprise no one, the sov cit [is representing himself](https://dockets.justia.com/docket/missouri/mowdce/6:2025cv03239/185741) in court, and has filed a bunch of motions as part of his lawsuit against pretty much everyone even remotely involved in his arrest, including a demand that he and his family be relocated (for whatever reason) and be paid at least $10,000 a month for living expenses etc. Even more unsurprisingly, the court said no. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2025, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1566 "2025-10-15T14:54:48Z")
I know a lot of cosplayers and their considered opinion, after much deliberation, seems to be “That boy is fucked up something awful!”. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2025, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1567 "2025-10-15T15:29:40Z")
You gotta love the hypocrisy of people who claim not to contract with the government trying to enforce a fee schedule or otherwise demand payment from the government. I’d love someone to reply, “Sorry, you don’t have a contract with us for paying those fees” ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2025, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1568 "2025-10-16T05:29:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Told the judge he was making a “special appearance,” swore oath “under Creator’s Watch, penalty of death and perjury,” demanded jury trial, declared “no controversy, I leave in peace.” Jokes on him - the supa sekrit sauce us lawyers know is that saying these words only works if you say them while facing _exactly_ west north-west and throwing salt over your shoulder, and finish each sentence with “abracadabra”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1569 "2025-10-20T15:01:32Z")
Some sov cit groups are reportedly hiding behind fake indigenous people organizations to promote their nonsense. Sometimes real indigenous people groups are involved as well. nsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2025/06/how-sovereign-citizen-claims-fail-but-keep-clogging-courts One such group formed a few years ago in Ontario but which is not cited as an actual indigenous peoples organization on a Canadian government listing, has held a “tribunal” in which it determined that Covid-19 mRNA vaccinations are a bioweapon of mass destruction, reportedly relying on info from a who’s who of antivax loonies. > **[EXCLUSIVE - BREAKING NEWS: Alliance Of Indigenous Nations International...](https://www.josephsansone.com/p/exclusive-breaking-news-alliance)** > > World's First Governing Body and Judicial Authority to Declare MRNA Weapons of Mass Destruction! Calls on Mankind to Unite to Stop Global Biowarfare, Depopulation, and Transhumanism! In the absence of Nuremberg-style trials (and executions) which antivaxers have been lusting after for years, faux tribunals are the next best thing. Not surprising that sov cits are getting into the act. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1570 "2025-10-20T19:26:59Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > In the absence of Nuremberg-style trials (and executions) which antivaxers have been lusting after for years, faux tribunals are the next best thing. Not surprising that sov cits are getting into the act. But, but, but… THEY ARE AFRAID OF NEEDLES!!! ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1571 "2025-10-20T19:46:37Z")
I can imagine a judge lecturing one of these types: “Sir, there indeed used to be “Freemen On the Land”; they were called “indians”, and what happened was that the United States government seized their land by right of conquest, killed any of them who objected too strenuously, and herded the survivors onto reservations. The government is doing you a favor by presuming that you have citizenship as a birthright; if you are not a citizen of the United States of America, then what the hell are you doing in OUR country?” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1572 "2025-10-20T20:12:56Z")
You know, rather than ICE beating the crap out of people protesting how about this: “I am not an American citizen. I am a” insert SovCit claim of American National, Moorish-American, Natural-Child-of-God, etc. Judge asks for birthplace to determine if they are a citizen under the 14th Amendment, the rare American national under federal law or a non-citizen. If they are a citizen (and that’s pretty much a given) … “So you are declaring in open court that you are choosing to renounce your American citizenship?” Any word salad other than an explicit no gets the SovIdiot a DS4080 to fill out and they lose their citizenship effective immediately (laws would have to change) via a court order. Now they get placed in the delicate hands of ICE agents for processing. Why wouldn’t they want a free trip to Pyongyang? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1573 "2025-10-21T19:25:26Z")
My understanding is that stateless people are a huge international headache that nobody wants to deal with willingly. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2025, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1574 "2025-10-21T19:27:00Z")
Good point. Arrange with another country that needs cheap manual labor to give them citizenship upon renouncing their USA citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2025, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1575 "2025-10-21T19:44:51Z")
I hear El Salvador is hiring. It’s also warm there, and lots of Americans would like to move from colder northern climes. Win-win! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2025, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1576 "2025-10-21T20:22:56Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > “So you are declaring in open court that you are choosing to renounce your American citizenship?” “D—n the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2025, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1577 "2025-10-21T21:27:00Z")
An oddly resonant sentiment these days … ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2025, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1578 "2025-10-22T01:55:10Z")
Been a long time since I read that story. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2025, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1579 "2025-10-22T14:47:04Z")
What’s the record for driving license suspensions? [https://flackbroadcasting.com/news/local-resident-convicted-on-driving-with-24-license-suspensions-argued-to-court-that-he-had-a-constitutional-right-to-travel](https://flackbroadcasting.com/news/local-resident-convicted-on-driving-with-24-license-suspensions-argued-to-court-that-he-had-a-constitutional-right-to-travel) “I’m vacationing, not serving time in prison.” ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2025, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1580 "2025-10-22T18:11:27Z")
Just because this argument didn’t work the last 23 times he tried it doesn’t mean it won’t work this time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=78) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=80)