# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2025, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1581 "2025-10-22T23:11:49Z")
He probably just had his inflection wrong. Next time for sure! ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1582 "2025-10-23T22:39:24Z")
Pretty sure that for obvious logistical reasons you aren’t allowed to renounce your US citizenship while you’re physically in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2025, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1583 "2025-10-23T23:29:54Z")
Why not? Just take them immediately into custody and deport them. ICE ICE baby. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1584 "2025-10-24T00:36:09Z")
Because then they’re stateless, so there’s nowhere you can deport them to (assuming you care about things like international law, that is). ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2025, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1585 "2025-10-24T01:00:59Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > assuming you care about things like international law, that is). Well, there’s your problem. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2025, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1586 "2025-10-24T01:11:13Z")
Next stop, Bir Tawil ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2025, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1587 "2025-10-24T03:16:40Z")
You’ll be sorry if you call this woman a sovereign citizen. > **[Stuff](https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360865157/her-dramatic-arrest-went-viral-now-helen-delaney-accused-stalking-police)** ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2025, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1588 "2025-10-24T12:41:26Z")
Am I a bad person for thinking she reminds me of Pris after she gets shot by Deckard? Not because I wish violence upon her, but because of the pointless violent rage as the inevitable result of her situation - once shot - plays out. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2025, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1589 "2025-10-24T19:29:38Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > > “So you are declaring in open court that you are choosing to renounce your American citizenship?” > > “D—n the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!” > [@LSLGuy](#): > > An oddly resonant sentiment these days … > [@Baker](#): > > Been a long time since I read that story. For those who were wondering: [The Man Without a Country - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Without_a_Country) A very powerful 1863 tale. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2025, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1590 "2025-10-24T19:31:42Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Pretty sure that for obvious logistical reasons you aren’t allowed to renounce your US citizenship while you’re physically in the US. Almost always true: [Relinquishment of United States nationality - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relinquishment_of_United_States_nationality) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1591 "2025-10-24T19:46:45Z")
In our increasingly lawless country, citing regulations and court cases is becoming almost quaint. Especially on matters related to immigration, citizenship, and the conduct of ICE & their related agencies. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2025, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1592 "2025-10-24T21:33:07Z")
Here we have a SovCit stopped for speeding, who is not only a SovCit, but also a Planetary Postal Court Judge! It’s another one of the Van Balion videos and contains some of his wry commentary, such as wondering if the planetary or intergalactic judgeship comes with a cape. This one has not just one but **two** SovCit lawyers on the line, advising the police that if they break her window for refusing to come out of the car, the officers will be charged with treason. I normally delight in seeing justice meted out to these morons, but in my view this takes a dark turn. I think there was no need for the police to use pepper spray on this young woman, lunatic though she may be, because they could easily have pulled her out without doing so. I’d classify this as excessive force, but maybe that’s just me, and I felt sorry for her. Van Balion apparently did not. But ultimately this video is more sad than funny, and that’s unfortunate. Opinions may vary. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/z3rs8QgBrm8/hqdefault.jpg "Smug Sovereign Citizen INSTANTLY Regrets Demanding This Supervisor") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3rs8QgBrm8) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2025, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1593 "2025-10-25T07:43:14Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I normally delight in seeing justice meted out to these morons, but in my view this takes a dark turn. I think there was no need for the police to use pepper spray on this young woman, lunatic though she may be, because they could easily have pulled her out without doing so. I had the same thought when I saw it. You aren’t going to win any friends with the police when you accuse them of treason, but the pepper spray was just retaliation. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2025, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1594 "2025-10-25T14:50:55Z")
It’s part of the “necromancy”. Or maybe the pepper-spraying actually was intended to have a protective effect, causing her to turn away from the window before they smashed it, thus keeping flying glass from hitting her in the face. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2025, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1595 "2025-10-25T21:14:06Z")
Or maybe they just lost patience with her. Not what you want the police doing, but damn, if I were a cop at the driver’s window on most of the stops shown in this thread, my taser would be out. And I have NO guarantee I wouldn’t just say “Okay, I’m out of fucks, I said ‘Shut up or I’ll zap you!’ and you didn’t…” _ZAP!_ . _And, that, members of the jury, is why I shouldn’t have been given a badge in the first place…_ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2025, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1596 "2025-10-25T21:39:22Z")
With the number of sovcits shooting at cops, I could see police being increasingly wary of the really insane ones who’re clearly out of control of themselves in a foaming rage. At this juncture in American history I sure don’t want to encourage police violence. But prophylactic pepper spray to prevent being shot seems like a not insane precaution when dealing w a real frothing loonie. Crazy or utterly wasted / high people are unpredictable. Crazy SovCits are guaranteed oppositional defiant to an unpredictable degree. Those are two very different scenarios. Perhaps warranting different police protocols. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2025, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1597 "2025-10-26T09:33:38Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Or maybe the pepper-spraying actually was intended to have a protective effect, causing her to turn away from the window before they smashed it, thus keeping flying glass from hitting her in the face. I used to watch more of those videos and don’t recall seeing pepper-straying like that. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1598 "2025-10-29T19:34:33Z")
[Update](http://live5news.com/2025/10/28/hes-fired-woman-charged-deadly-charleston-police-chase-allowed-represent-herself/) from the files of [sovereign-citizens-are-just-crackpots-to-laugh-at](https://www.postandcourier.com/news/margie-brown-uhaul-fatal-police-chase-downtown/article_c50c6b38-502e-4d06-ac3e-45ef1c8212a0.html). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1599 "2025-10-29T19:46:02Z")
That seems more like no-kidding insanity. But hopeless in either case. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2025, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1600 "2025-10-29T20:33:01Z")
> The box truck driver, 54-year-old Margie Kathy Brown, is charged with multiple traffic violations, including reckless homicide, a crime that upon conviction carries a maximum 10-year prison sentence. But she does not consent nor does she contract with the state, so she’ll get away with it. Damn legal loopholes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=81)