# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 83
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1641 "2025-12-30T18:40:02Z")
I wonder if sometimes the sovcit loons purposely avoid taking measures to subvert the law just so they can flout it on principle. Like, if they knew how to easily counterfeit a tag sticker that would avoid trouble but didn’t because that would be acknowledging that the law was legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1642 "2025-12-30T20:55:14Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > if they knew how to easily counterfeit a tag sticker that would avoid trouble but didn’t because that would be acknowledging that the law was legitimate I guess that’s my cynicism showing. I assume that most of the sovcit types are doing it just as a way to avoid taxes. They might truly believe they have magic words, but it’s not the principle of the thing that they care about, rather the paying money of the thing. I know they say “freedom,” but I always hear “freedom to not pay taxes.” Perhaps my poor moral character is showing because somehow it’s even worse if they’re not doing it for the money. I’m judging because they’re using a particular ineffective way to avoid paying taxes. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1643 "2025-12-30T21:56:48Z")
And those fake plates just scream “Need a good laugh today, officer? Just pull me over!” Whereas the easier method of just sporting their expired tag might fly under the radar. And be cheaper, if they’re paying good money for printed (or stamped) SovCit/Moorish plates. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1644 "2025-12-30T22:07:47Z")
A lot of 'em are looking for confrontation. They see themselves as Freedom Fighters or looking to file a lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1645 "2025-12-30T22:27:16Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Wow, someone in Colorado got a ticket for an expired plate? She must be one of the most unlucky people alive. Ummm… Full details. She was in Kansas going 90 in a 75. Ooops. Kinda got the book thrown at her. But she knew she fucked up, was cooperative and went on her way. Oh and since we just moved her licence did not have the correct address, and she could not find her insurance card. This is not good. I’m guessing 2k. She was going cross country to her/our BIL’s funeral. A bit distracted, and didn’t think. It all happend very fast. Day before Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1646 "2025-12-30T23:30:07Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Whereas the easier method of just sporting their expired tag might fly under the radar. And be cheaper, if they’re paying good money for printed (or stamped) SovCit/Moorish plates. Yeah, my current record for driving on expired tags is from Sept. 2020 to the present on my WRX. I don’t drive it that much, but at least once a week or so, or the battery will start to go flat. Some weeks it is the car I primarily drive, though – It’s the car I use to move my 2X15" bass cabinet when I play. I haven’t been pulled over for it yet. When I renew it this week, I’m going to have to go to the tax office to renew since it’s been so long, and they will charge me for the intervening years. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1647 "2025-12-30T23:31:19Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Oh and since we just moved her licence did not have the correct address, and she could not find her insurance card. This is not good. I’m guessing 2k. Ouch! 2K for 15 over? Noted. Do. Not. Speed. In. Kansas. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1648 "2025-12-30T23:32:34Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > She was going cross country to her/our BIL’s funeral. A bit distracted, and didn’t think. It all happend very fast. Day before Christmas. Very unlucky situation for all involved, and my sympathies to you and your extended family. Good on your wife for keeping it together, cooperating, and making it a (very unpleasant) business transaction. The best case that comes out of it is a ticket and sent on your way. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1649 "2025-12-31T00:18:50Z")
That’s just a guess. Plus expired plates, no insurance card and wrong address on her Colorado license. It’s gonna add up. Thank god she didn’t have any MJ in her car. Kansas does NOT like Colorado because we are reasonable and intelligent people. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1650 "2025-12-31T00:25:36Z")
Thank you. She is on her way back as I write this. Central Pennsylvania to front range Colorado and didn’t leave until noon today. She thinks she will be here TOMORROW. Dammit. I’m getting way off subject here though. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1651 "2025-12-31T00:32:33Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Plus expired plates, no insurance card and wrong address on her Colorado license. Ehh, in my quite extensive experience, those are generally “fix-it” tickets in Texas. If you show up to the court with all of those things addressed, they’re dismissed other than pretty paltry court fees. FWIW, my last ticket in Texas was about 20 over. IIRC, it was just over $200, with deferred adjudication fees. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1652 "2025-12-31T09:00:26Z")
I don’t understand why the cops don’t just undercut the traveling v driving “distinction” at the git-go by pointing out that operating a motor vehicle on public thoroughfares without the required documentation is illegal. Judges, too. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1653 "2025-12-31T09:31:55Z")
How would that undercut any sovereign Citizen? They would just continue claiming that the cops and judges are either ignorant and/or lying, and continue on their merry way. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1654 "2025-12-31T11:27:35Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Ehh, in my quite extensive experience, those are generally “fix-it” tickets in Texas. If you show up to the court with all of those things addressed Same in Colorado, where we live. This happend somewhere in the middle of Kansas. I doubt she’s gonna want to drive 300 miles one way to fix it. The whole situation about the licenses plates sucks too. The post office that we just moved from is not forwarding our mail (I don’t know what’s going on there), so she never got the notice to re-new. Still it’s our responsibility to do it, but we always counted on that reminder. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1655 "2025-12-31T15:04:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I don’t understand why the cops don’t just undercut the traveling v driving “distinction” at the git-go by pointing out that operating a motor vehicle on public thoroughfares without the required documentation is illegal. You can’t logic somebody out of a position they didn’t logic themselves into ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1656 "2025-12-31T17:11:37Z")
My point is that there isn’t any _traveling/operating a motor vehicle_ “dichotomy” that they can pretend to hide behind. Fun Fact: many years ago, even before the sovcit movement became the plague it is today, I saw a mule-skinner type guy on TV say that operating a motor vehicle isn’t actually “driving.” His argument was that only living creatures could be “driven” (oxen, mule teams, herds of goats, cattle, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![vbob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vbob/32/4439_2.png) [@vbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vbob)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1657 "2025-12-31T18:03:07Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > that ~~lawyer~~ agent will have to hire his own ~~lawyer~~ agent who will have to hire his own ~~lawyer~~ agent It might be turtles all the way down, but ~~lawyers~~ agents all the way up… ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1658 "2025-12-31T18:19:36Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Fun Fact: many years ago, even before the sovcit movement became the plague it is today, I saw a mule-skinner type guy on TV say that operating a motor vehicle isn’t actually “driving.” His argument was that only living creatures could be “driven” (oxen, mule teams, herds of goats, cattle, etc.). Around here, there are signs on ramps warning against taking your large domestic animals onto the Interstate. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1659 "2025-12-31T18:29:30Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > [https://www.williamsandwilliamslawfirm.com](https://www.williamsandwilliamslawfirm.com) > > Yes, there’s serious coin involved, so you have to be seriously committed to being fleeced, sorry, forking over $$$ for “litigation”. I thought those Sovereign Citizen types believed that modern Federal Reserve Notes were a government scam, and only accepted payment in gold, silver, or bitcoin. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1660 "2025-12-31T18:31:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I don’t understand why the cops don’t just undercut the traveling v driving “distinction” at the git-go by pointing out that operating a motor vehicle on public thoroughfares without the required documentation is illegal. The cops dealing with these imbeciles usually do just that, exhibiting far, far more patience than I ever could. The response is always the same: the cop is ignorant of the law and the Constitution, followed by a request for a supervisor. And in a repeat performance that I’ve seen over and over again, as predictable as re-watching a movie, the supervisor tells the sovcit exactly the same thing. The usual consequence is the sovcit is arrested, and threatens to sue everybody. Many of them are so delusional that they continue to do exactly the same thing after contesting the charge in court and getting convicted, and are arrested repeatedly. Even animals far down on the intelligence ladder learn from experience, but these imbeciles do not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=82) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=84)