# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 85
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1681 "2026-01-07T00:50:16Z")
Heheeh, kind of like a scofflaw. I’m probably not going to follow it of my own volition. But if you catch me and are a cop or an editor, I’ll go along with it. 🤡 ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1682 "2026-01-07T00:54:14Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > He’s either mentally ill or a real POS. Or both. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1683 "2026-01-07T02:58:07Z")
How about we just assume you don’t know what those words mean, and you just don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1684 "2026-01-07T03:32:06Z")
How about we understand that the usage I use is common, and I don’t care how much you care about it? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1685 "2026-01-07T04:01:38Z")
Murder is common too. Not sure commonality is a good yardstick. And yes, obviously language is all made up and not inherently right or wrong like murder. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1686 "2026-01-07T04:04:00Z")
Hehehe, beat me to it on the edit. Language drift is pretty natural. Might as well be angry at the sun for setting. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1687 "2026-01-07T04:15:32Z")
Language drift is pretty natural and so is murder. The sun and planets are not sentient so make no choices about their actions. Consideration of their “choices” is therefore an oxymoron. You on the other hand are a sentient being who has made a decision to use a word in a way that _your own cite_ says is a mistake. You (and others) didn’t know the difference between flaunt and flout and they sound kinda the same so you (and others) started using the wrong one in a phrase and now you are going to stick to it because “fuck you that’s why”. The sun’s “choice” to set is not amusing. Your decision to be proudly wrong on the other hand is pretty damn funny. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1688 "2026-01-07T04:20:37Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > You (and others) didn’t know the difference between flaunt and flout and they sound kinda the same so you (and others) started the wrong one in a phrase and now you are going to stick to it because “fuck you that’s why”. Ehhh, again, it states it’s technically wrong, and I knew that the meaning of “flaunt” in other contexts had the opposite meaning well before today. On the other hand, it’s been in common usage in the manner I used since long before I was born, and my meaning seemed to be understood clearly. So if someone on a message board corrects me, I’m not going to really care. If I was corrected in my professional writing, I’d care. We’re on a message board, so I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1689 "2026-01-07T04:24:15Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > If I was corrected in my professional writing, I’d care. Should that be “were”? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1690 "2026-01-07T04:25:01Z")
Heheh, I honestly have no idea which would be “correct” in the current fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1691 "2026-01-07T04:29:49Z")
You don’t care so badly you went off and googled a cite to try to back yourself up. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1692 "2026-01-07T04:51:01Z")
I actually looked it up to figure out how that construction got into my head in the first place. So I did learn something. It also made me laugh at prescriptivists a bit and also made me understand their pain a tiny amount. Man, that’s a Sisyphean task. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1693 "2026-01-07T18:00:17Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > > [@scabpicker](#): > > > > Until then, assume I’m meaning “flaunting disregard for the law” > > Kinda like a sovereign citizen, making up their own rules? 😆 well,… > [@gnoitall](#): > > Unless you’re going to obey the law in the most over-the-top conspicuous “look at me” way. pretty much describes most of the Sovereign Citizen events here. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1694 "2026-01-07T18:01:33Z")
Kinda? Certainly the over-the-top part. But again, it’s “laws” they make up themselves, and “obey” mostly in the sense of insisting everyone else obey. (The core conceit of the soverign citizen ethos is “laws for thee, but not for me.”) ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1695 "2026-01-07T18:10:57Z")
I never thought about it that way. But yeah, Sovcit thinking only works if it’s limited to a few people. If **everyone** used the “get out of laws free” card, society would collapse. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1696 "2026-01-07T19:06:00Z")
It’s a cheat code. Nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1697 "2026-01-07T21:03:50Z")
The difference being, actual cheat codes work. Sovcit BS doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1698 "2026-01-07T21:07:00Z")
Quite right. But our enforcement mechanisms are so sloppy that a SovCit who doesn’t go seeking a confrontation can be a tax cheat and scofflaw for years, nay decades, before their personal consequence chickens arrive home to roost. And during that whole time they’re congratulating themselves on how well their cheat codes are working. And pocketing the sweet, sweet cash they’re no longer sending the mean old invalid government they don’t recognize. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1699 "2026-01-07T21:59:47Z")
Never mind the sovcits! Getting right with _flout_ vs _flaunt_ is the IMPORTANT thing! And don’t let’s even get started on _stanch_ vs _staunch_ ! (That’s my pet peef.) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1700 "2026-01-07T22:08:57Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > How about we understand that the usage I use is common, and I don’t care how much you care about it? With all respect to a fine poster, ignorance is common, too. That doesn’t make it right. And the “flaunt” vs “flout” thing is a really classic example of simple confusion that gets promulgated through repetition and eventually common use as if they were synonyms. It’s not really prescriptivism to point out that they’re completely different words that just happen to sound the same but have no common etymology. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=84) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=86)