# Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572 "2016-10-24T07:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 88
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2026, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1741 "2026-03-30T04:27:34Z")
The prize for coldest (but funny) headline goes to the Betoota Advocate (our equivalent of The Onion): [“Cooker Finally Gets His Shots“](https://www.betootaadvocate.com/cooker-finally-gets-his-shots/) “Cooker” being Australian slang for a conspiracy theorist crazy person. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1742 "2026-05-19T02:29:53Z")
In a localish to me story, a sovereign citizen named Gregory Maxwell shot a cop in the head after a traffic stop. He’s acting as his own attorney in his trial, which should go well for him. > **[Man accused of shooting, nearly killing Oconee County deputy stands trial](https://www.wyff4.com/article/man-accused-shooting-oconee-county-deputy-trial-sc/71341756)** > > The man accused of shooting and nearly killing Oconee County Corporal Lucas Watts is now on trial. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1743 "2026-05-19T09:19:41Z")
Serious question. If someone elects to act as his own lawyer, can he later claim incompetent representation on appeal? What if his defense was objectively shitty? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1744 "2026-05-19T09:43:51Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Serious question. If someone elects to act as his own lawyer, can he later claim incompetent representation on appeal? Nope! I’ve seen a few sovcit trial videos lately where the judge specifically tells them that if they represent themselves, they are waiving that right. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1745 "2026-05-19T11:41:40Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > a sovereign citizen named Gregory Maxwell shot a cop in the head after a traffic stop. And folks question why the police act the way they do during stops involving SovCits and during stops in general. Not that this excuses the excesses we constantly see but it does explain them. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1746 "2026-05-19T12:25:59Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > the judge specifically tells them that if they represent themselves, they are waiving that right. They’ll try anyway. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1747 "2026-05-19T14:20:31Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > He’s acting as his own attorney in his trial, which should go well for him. “The HUMAN PERSON does not recognize this sentence of 640 years at hard labor _under_ the prison!” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1748 "2026-05-19T14:32:47Z")
Followed promptly by **Deputy Schmutz** : Recognize _this_, Sir! [Headlock] [handcuffs] [carried off to a holding cell behind the courtroom] ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1749 "2026-05-19T14:34:25Z")
Thanks. That’s what I figured, but wasn’t sure. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1750 "2026-05-20T17:08:50Z")
> [@](#): > > After nearly an hour of questioning Maxwell about his identity, deputies said he sped off I don’t understand why officers waste so much time on these potentially dangerous loons. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1751 "2026-05-20T18:21:32Z")
I imagine there is a space between being uncooperative and being arrestably uncooperative. The SovCit’s goal amounts to playing in that gap. ISTM that very early in the encounter the LEO needs to make a decision: are they OK just letting the loon go now, or do they want to spend the time to go fishing for that arrestable offense? Then act on that decision. If our country wasn’t in the middle of a turn to fascism, and our only problem was a growing anarcho-SovCit movement, I might favor altering the vehicle code so operating a car with any of expired / invalid / no plates, registration, or driver’s license is an arrestable offense as such. It certainly is in some other countries and somehow life goes on there. That’d stop the gamesmanship. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1752 "2026-05-21T22:10:37Z")
Gregory Maxwell’s trial has literally just now ended. I think the juror read out “guilty” on every charge. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2026, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1753 "2026-05-21T22:37:06Z")
> **[Grand Jury convicts man in near-fatal shooting of Upstate deputy](https://www.wyff4.com/article/man-found-guilty-in-near-fatal-deputy-shooting-sc/71378524)** > > A man accused of shooting and nearly killing an Oconee County deputy has been convicted by a grand jury. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2026, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1754 "2026-05-22T01:22:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Maxwell in court, representing his own defense, denied pre-planning the altercation. > > “I was in my right, sound mind. What was I doing to make individuals unsafe?” Maxwell asked. Can’t think of anything. 30-page handwritten appeals and complaints, here we come. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2026, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1755 "2026-05-22T02:17:38Z")
Watch this video of the judge chewing him out before sentencing him to 183 years in prison: > **[Grand Jury convicts man in near-fatal shooting of Upstate deputy](https://www.wyff4.com/article/man-found-guilty-in-near-fatal-deputy-shooting-sc/71378524)** > > A man accused of shooting and nearly killing an Oconee County deputy has been convicted by a grand jury. (Actually, I see that that’s the same URL as before, but the text and video of the story have been changed to reflect the sentencing.) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2026, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1756 "2026-05-22T02:36:56Z")
Normally I’m appalled by the extremely harsh sentences normally doled out by US courts, but in this case I’m fine with it. The police officer shot in the head did indeed survive, but he’s in bad shape with severe brain damage and will likely never return to work. There were other officers this guy shot at who could also have been killed. The sentence of 183 years is just a fictional anomaly arising from the peculiar US justice system, but to the extent that it means that this asshole will never again see the light of day, this is justice well served. I’ve mentioned this before but the 2025 movie _Sovereign_ is well worth watching. It’s based on a true story. The “sovereign citizen” cult is often funny, but can be truly deadly. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1757 "2026-05-23T04:09:05Z")
The headline is wrong - it was a trial jury, not a grand jury which convicted this guy - but I’m glad the judge hammered him at sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2026, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1758 "2026-05-23T21:44:20Z")
It’d be bizarre if we started talking about how a grand jury could _convict_ a ham sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1759 "2026-05-24T04:16:53Z")
Well, I’d say that jury’s verdict was appreciably grand. Yes, yes, I know, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1760 "2026-06-03T22:19:10Z")
“I’ll be judge, I’ll be jury” said the cunning sovereign citizen > [@](#): > > "Now, I have been preparing for 30 years to perform a life hysterectomy on all of those who have caused my family so much irreparable harm, all I think of is death.” > > “And since you assume Jesus is going to save you at the last minute; lets stop here…because that’s not going to happen. Just call it the Anti-Christ, since I am the judge and jury of “mankind”. Unfortunately :(“ > **[Court Docs: Indy Man Sent Threatening Letters to State’s Top Judge](https://wibc.com/888726/court-docs-indy-man-sent-threatening-letters-to-states-top-judge/)** > > 52-year-old Michael Cable of Indianapolis is charged with intimidating a judge, a level 5 felony, after sending multiple deranged letters to Indiana Chief Justice Loretta Rush. He’s “the last grandson of Jesus”\*, so he knows whereof he speaks. \*and quite possibly his own grandpa. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=87) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572.md?page=89)