Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake

Possibly…Sad

Just for fun, for those looking for further amusement, I give you a compilation of five outstanding sovereign citizens and their successes with outwitting the police … :rofl:

I could never be a cop. I’d go crazy trying to deal with these people. I can barely watch the videos of their entitled lunacy. Every one of them thinks they’re William Wallace standing up to Longshanks while forgetting about how that ended for Wallace.

This 1941 cartoon “Porky’s Snooze Reel” features “Poisonalities In The News”, and the advice of a tax scofflaw beginning at 1:15: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6xmniz

The first four were psychotic fuckwits. That last one was a little dodgy to me. Just tell him he ran the fucking stop sign.

My favorite sovereign citizen videos are the ones in which the SC says the cops have to prove their jurisdiction over them, and it eventually gets to them being pulled down and being cuffed and/or tazed. That proves it for me. And the best tazings are when the SC squeals like a pig.

It’s an uncomfortable truth that the only proof that anyone needs about jurisdiction is the cop’s gun and the cop’s radio that can summon more folks with guns, and perhaps bigger pieces of crime-fighting equipment (SWAT teams, helicopters, etc.). While law enforcement is hopefully restrained by rules that help make sure that their power is used for the betterment of society, the key part of law enforcement is the “force” part. Your magic words don’t deflect bullets or make handcuffs fall off your wrists or allow you to slip out of the back of a police car or a jail like a ghost.

If a cop is overstepping, your recourse is to bring in a lawyer once you’re in custody. And to me, this demonstrates what being a SovCit is really about. (And I know others have made this point in this thread, this is nothing new, but I think it’s worth repeating.) If a SovCit sincerely wants to live their life peacefully and lawfully, and truly believes that the law is on their side due to their superior knowledge, they should peacefully submit and then use their unimpeachable lawsmithing skills to dismiss the case once in front of a judge. Even if a cop is wrong when they are arresting you, being wrong doesn’t prevent them from arresting you. The truth is, a SovCit resists arrest because they want the confrontation. They want to be a martyr. They want it documented that an ignorant cop was abusing them, and the best way to do that is force them to abuse them.

I mean, I swear I have seen a SovCit video where a cop stopped someone just to ask them a simple question, and wasn’t even trying to give them a ticket or arrest them, and the SovCit forced the simple encounter into a confrontation that led to an arrest. They want to be arrested. They dream of being tossed in jail and then becoming the star of their own movie where they prevail with justice in the face of the system. The delusion they suffer from goes far beyond a terrible misunderstanding of the law.

One of the loons in the video linked just above kept telling the police officers he was calling his lawyer. That part was the funniest for me. If the law does not apply, why does he have a lawyer? Shouldn’t he be calling his shaman instead?

To play devil’s advocate, if the cop has no jurisdiction, you would bring in a lawyer to establish that.

But yeah, a SovCit who uses an actual lawyer with a real license seems anathema. And who would represent someone like that? Though, I dunno, I guess having a client like that is really good job insurance. Assuming they can pay you, and not with some kind of fake crypto or whatever.

I don’t know that. I get the sense that they (some of them?) believe in magic and that if they just keep repeating the same spell just right it will work.

They seem to try to the tactics in court as well.

That depends on your definition of a lawyer. If it’s someone who has graduated law school, studied for the bar exams, and passed the bar, that’s one thing. If it’s someone who does not have those qualifications, but claims that they are capable and allowed to represent another, as so many SovCits tend to use, that’s another thing. The former is a real lawyer; the latter is a sham.

Well, I wouldn’t, and IAAL. The provincial Law Society (in American, that’s the state bar association) keeps us all informed as to these folks’ characteristics, and advises us that should a wannabe-client present with such characteristics, we should not act for them.

I did have a wannabe-client present with a stack of paperwork one time, and he wanted them notarized. One look, and I recognized the characteristics of SovCit/FOTL stuff. I refused to do what he wanted. I’d been warned about what to look for by the Law Society, and so, I showed him the door instead of engaging with him.

Of course they can pay. Every citizen has a secret Treasury account set up for them when they’re born. He or she pays from that.

On Court Cam I’ve seen SovCit loons try to bring in other SovCit loons to represent them, complete with all their pseudolegalistic mumbo-jumbo. It goes about as well as you’d expect.

Thereby saving yourself a lot of hassle and annoyance, not to mention time-wasting, plus reducing the likelihood that you yourself will get hit with a blizzard of liens and other bogus court filings.

An uncomfortable truth, indeed, but a necessary reality, and recent measures like mandatory body cams have undoubtedly gone a long way toward mitigating police abuses. They still occur, of course, and we have the systemic problem of “driving while black”, but what I’m seeing in these videos is an extraordinary amount of restraint by police that is obviously the result of intensive training.

Both can be true, as motivations vary with the individual. There is one video that comes from the sovcit’s own dashcam, where there is a cop car in sight and he deliberately drives so as to provoke a confrontation. Some others are clearly being deliberately provocative. And others still are calm and respectful and seem genuinely astonished that they’re actually being arrested. Even in the realm of lunacy, it takes all kinds, as the saying goes.

Some of them do. They actually have paid consultants who are self-styled “experts” in the art of sovereign-citizening. They have these shamans on speed dial and they will guide them through what to do and say in a traffic stop, in real time. Unfortunately the advice is usually terribly wrong and almost invariably escalates the situation. There is one video where the sovcit tells the shaman that the officer is telling him he needs a driver’s license to drive in that state, and the shaman laughs with insufferable smugness and says, “no, you don’t”.

This is a cult that inhabits an alternate reality. The shamans are basically fraudsters exploiting the cult. What I can’t understand is how the delusion can persist after the first arrest and conviction, but apparently it can and it does. Some of these loons are persistent repeat offenders.

The officer’s behaviour here was weird, and probably unusual, but presumably allowed in some jurisdictions. The reason would be that if the officer knows or believes that more serious charges may be warranted, it’s a way to get the suspect out of the car and detain him with a minimum of drama. In a number of these videos (not necessarily involving sovcits) the officer’s demeanour just before making the arrest is deceptively calm and friendly, like “I need you to get out of the car for a minute”, or having a friendly chat with a suspect at his apartment door, and then saying with equal calmness “turn around and put your hands behind your back”. It’s sometimes rather impressive how coolly they get this done.

I mean, if he suspects the more serious charge, he could just say I think you ran the stop sign, may I see your ID? The fact that they didn’t press charges of any kind on the guy is certainly an indicator as well.

That aside, I agree that the officers we’re seeing are just incredibly patient. I do wonder about the effect of body cams and cell phone cameras.

And get paid he $1000/minute they stay in jail according to their fee schedule.

I recall during one traffic stop the sovcit loon actually does show the officer a “fee schedule”. “A fee schedule?”, asks the perplexed non-insane officer. “For what?” :laughing: Yes, they really do have them. The shamans probably sell them to gullible loons.

The irony of the fee schedule is
“I don’t contract to the state. That’s why I don’t have a license or registration. Therefore I do not have obey your laws.”
“Here is my fee schedule. This is a binding contract between the State and me.”