# Soviet technology that was on par with, or better than it's Western counterpart **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 20, 2026, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816 "2026-07-20T21:37:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/61 "2026-09-03T18:52:45Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > know a bit about this with regard to aircraft. > > It may be better to rephrase the question a little, because it wasn’t that the Soviets made “better” aircraft than we did. They made them very **differently** than we would have because they had very different needs. > > Take the Korean War era MiG-15 fighter and its American counterpart, the F-86 Sabre. The Sabre had hydraulically boosted flight controls and several other bells and whistles, while the MiG was very bare bones. The MiG’s stick was very high in the cockpit to give the pilot better leverage because there were no hydraulics. Why? Because hydraulic fluid freezes in places like Siberia. It was built simply and rugged for that reason, and because it was likely to be serviced by barely literate conscripts. > > The American military by contrast, could assume well trained ground personnel would be working on the F-86. And because cost was less of an issue, they could build it with more “stuff”. We would never have built a plane like the Soviets built MiGs, but they were both very good airplanes, with comparable performance, well designed for where they came from and how they would be used… Another part of the equation is that most Soviet aircraft (especially early generations) were intended to be used together with ground radar support. They were primarily designed to be part of a coordinated _defense_ to protect the motherland. They could still be used offensively of course, but functioned less well in that role. The RD-180 was pretty much the best rocket engine around until fairly recently. The US never used them in manned missions because they deemed them less reliable. But that’s debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/62 "2026-09-03T19:02:51Z")
Radial keratotomy was invented and perfected by the Soviets. Their eye institutes were the best from the 70s through the 90s, until PRK and LASIK matured and became the standard methods for micro-eye surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/63 "2026-09-03T19:49:23Z")
Self-appendectomy, as well. 🙂 **Leonid Rogozov** , a Soviet doctor stationed at the Novolazarevskaya Station in Antarctica. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/64 "2026-09-03T20:15:31Z")
In the 1980s and 1990s _der Bronstein_ (the German-language version of the [Handbook of Mathematics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronshtein_and_Semendyayev), originally by two Russian authors) was the canonical mathematical reference for West German engineers (don‘t know about mathematicians). You could solve almost all solvable integrals using the _Bronstein._ ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/65 "2026-09-03T20:18:40Z")
Yep, as another German EE, who started college in 1989 I can attest this. The Bronstein was also quite cheap, because it was printed in the GDR. I still have my copy somewhere, but haven’t looked into it for decades. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/66 "2026-09-03T20:26:47Z")
There was also the fact that the Soviets could make a lot more of them tanks. Same with the space hardware. The assembly line rolls right out to the launch pad. As Stalin observed: “Quantity has a quality all its’ own.” ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/67 "2026-09-03T22:31:16Z")
The USA “could have” matched Soviet armor production– if we were willing to put the USA on a permanent war mobilization footing and regiment both the economy and society to a degree the public would have condemned as tyrannical; a consideration the Soviets didn’t worry about. In the long run maintaining a market economy largely undistorted by military spending paid off in advancements Soviet society simply couldn’t copy, such as the rise of PCs and electronic data sharing. (In the USSR, photocopiers were monitored by the KGB). > [@E-DUB](#): > > The assembly line rolls right out to the launch pad. File this under making a virtue of necessity. The USA has a long coastline and extensive navigable rivers for large barge traffic; for Russia the Volga is largely it. Anything too large to fit through the dimension limits of the Soviet rail system had to be manufactured on site. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/68 "2026-09-03T23:01:15Z")
I recall reading that at low speed, Soviet jets like the Fulcrum and Flanker were more optimized for close-in air-to-air combat with more maneuverability due to good AoA performance, Cobra maneuver, LERXes and whatnot. Of course, the problem for them was that before they could get into close-range combat, the NATO jets had the upper hand in BVR combat first. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/69 "2026-09-03T23:25:47Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > (In the USSR, photocopiers were monitored by the KGB). They are here too, though not by the KGB. At least, if you try to photocopy US currency. Every unit (or so I’ve heard anyway) has some sort of unique identifier code, and some way of determining someone is trying to do their part to stimulate the very local economy. ---
**Author:** ![Calder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Calder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calder)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/70 "2026-09-03T23:53:55Z")
The helmet-mounted sight and the R‑73 (AA‑11 Archer) missiles were radically superior to anything the West had in the 1980s. They came as a massive shock after the Wall fell and Germany inherited East German versions. They were better in almost every conceivable way to the AIM-9M. They had a helmet-mounted sight that let the pilot look at an aircraft and fire a missile, had much better range, had a much better seeker, and were much more maneuverable. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/71 "2026-09-04T00:49:44Z")
You are probably thinking of this: **[EURion constellation - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation)**. Which is a way for photocopiers or scanners to recognize currency and refuse to copy it. That is 100% real. And dates back to the mid 1990s, roughly 30 years ago now. I’ve only heard CT level BS about copiers “phoning home” to the relevant law enforcement folks if they detect an attempt at copying currency. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/72 "2026-09-04T00:53:17Z")
“Don’t try this at home, kids” certainly applies, in any event. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/73 "2026-09-04T00:59:11Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’ve only heard CT level BS about copiers “phoning home” to the relevant law enforcement folks I have heard that photocopiers microstamp copies so that they can be traced back to a particular copier. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/74 "2026-09-04T01:01:40Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > advancements Soviet society simply couldn’t copy, such as the rise of PCs and electronic data sharing Oh, they copied them. The problem was, those Soviet PCs were shit— let’s face it— and people could not afford them, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/75 "2026-09-04T01:03:31Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I have heard that photocopiers microstamp copies so that they can be traced back to a particular copier. Those are real. I thought everybody had heard of that? > **[Printer tracking dots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots)** > > Printer tracking dots, also known as printer steganography, DocuColor tracking dots, yellow dots, secret dots, or a machine identification code (MIC), are a digital watermark which many color laser printers and photocopiers produce on every printed page that identifies the time, the date, and the specific device that was used to print the document. They were developed by Xerox and Canon in the mid-1980s, but awareness of these tracking codes became public only in 2004. In the mid-1980s, Xerox pi... ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2026, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/76 "2026-09-07T00:59:24Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > Another part of the equation is that most Soviet aircraft (especially early generations) were intended to be used together with ground radar support. They were primarily designed to be part of a coordinated _defense_ to protect the motherland. They could still be used offensively of course, but functioned less well in that role. The whole V-PVO (Soviet Air-defense arm) tactics were for tight ground control vectoring, and not a lot of pilot discretion. And the plane designs tended to reflect this. But ultimately, the Soviets had a different philosophy with regard to maintenance, etc… and that was that an airplane/tank/etc… had to be extremely rugged for a limited time under field conditions and indifferent, conscript maintenance. Largely everything else was secondary to this. Contrast this with the Western approach where the expectation was for the equipment to be used a LOT in peacetime, maintained by trained personnel, and to be actually very good at what they were meant to do. Take the AK-47. It’s an intermediate cartridge rifle that’s renowned for its dependability and ruggedness. But it’s NOT accurate at all. Meanwhile, the West fielded rifles with the expectation that their troops would maintain them well, and they’re generally very accurate as well. And remained so (more or less) after tens of thousands of peacetime rounds. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816/77 "2026-09-21T17:49:30Z")
For those rare times I’ve gotten into the old Soviet chemical literature, it tends to be reliable. (To give an idea of general trustworthiness in organic chemistry, you’ve got Organic Syntheses, then a number of ACS/RSC/European societies/Japanese society journals, then the stuff by the big commercial publishers like Elsiever and still highly dependent by journal, and then it gets worse from there.) I’ve always chalked it up to less money, less fancy equipment, and less fancy supply availability. So if they tell you they did this reaction, I’m going to believe them. Much more than I believe a modern paper out of a number of countries or published in a large number of journals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soviet-technology-that-was-on-par-with-or-better-than-its-western-counterpart/1031816.md?page=3)