# Space Shuttle Columbia arrests - bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176 "2003-02-06T10:21:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/41 "2003-02-06T19:56:33Z")
Well, before all that I’ll settle just for some medical breakthroughs and a better quality of life. I appreciate the astronauts efforts and would like to extend them every iota of safety possible. ---
**Author:** ![BURNER](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@BURNER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BURNER)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/42 "2003-02-06T19:59:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Hmm, I don’t know. Maybe because it’s a FUCKING SPACE SHUTTLE ACCIDENT! And that makes it diffrent from an airplane crash or car accident?? I can assure you that if you were in a car accident it would mean a whole lot more to you than a shuttle accident. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/43 "2003-02-06T20:05:07Z")
My belief why the grief over the shuttle is so intense is because we, as civilians, don’t actually _witness_ a helicopter accident. That doesn’t make it any less tragic, it just makes us so much further removed from it. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/44 "2003-02-06T20:08:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beeblebrox \* > However, have we become so fascist after 911 that we _arrest_ people for picking up the debris? Wouldn’t it be easier to just say to them “hey, we are going to need that back, OK”? Oh, please. These people had AMPLE warning that they couldn’t keep that stuff. They should have giving it back already. The only way anyone could have not know about this is if they spent the last week locked in a closet without access to a newspaper, TV, or radio. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/45 "2003-02-06T20:10:23Z")
> [@](#): > > The only way anyone could have not know about this is if they spent the last week locked in a closet without access to a newspaper, TV, or radio. And if that, then they wouldn’t have even known about the Shuttle to go around town looking for debris! It’s not like they don’t mention on the news every six seconds “Don’t pick up the debris!!” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/46 "2003-02-06T20:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > **gruven:** I really honestly wanted to know what people thought, not to get unintelligently cursed at. But thanks. If you don’t see the difference between the loss of a helicopter gunship and its crew and the loss of a space shuttle and _its_ crew, I doubt it can be explained to you. I’ll try, though. How do you suppose people would feel if the Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria were lost with all hands? How do you suppose people feel about all the ships in the Spanish Armada that went down? We tend to value explorers and pioneers over enforcers, because, generally speaking, as individuals, their efforts make much more of a difference. Warships are _expected_ to go down, so even when it’s an accident, while we recognize that it’s a terrible loss for the families, it’s not necessarily a national (or global) tragedy. Soldiers are easier to come by, and their individual lives don’t make such a profound impact on the course of human history. With regard to people picking up debris, they are committing a crime – a crime which may have a negative impact on a very expensive investigation. Of _course_ they should be treated like criminals. There still a lot of evidence laying all over the place. People need to know that stealing it is going to have consequences. Obviously, people who would do this either don’t understand that they might be directly responsible for the possible failure of the investigation, and maybe even future accidents if such a failure prevents us from learning precisely what went wrong, or they value a small monetary gain or even a “souvenir” more than the human lives involved. If people aren’t punished (and pilloried in public) for this kind of mind-boggling irresponsibility, then more people are likely to make the same sort of transgressions. Damn straight they should be arrested. Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/47 "2003-02-06T20:29:41Z")
Who is to say that we don’t take other accidents seriously? A policeman friend of mine was saying that many policemen are killed in the line of duty each year—how much grieving do we do for them? Well, I, for one, grieve quite a lot. I get all weepy when I hear about _any_ of this stuff. The lives of policemen, or any other person are no less important. The difference with the shuttle is that it was a REALLY big vehicle, with A LOT of crash debris. The expense is immense. There’s a lot at stake. A lot of debris is falling on a large area of land. It’s a big deal—not just because of the lives lost, but because the space project is big, expensive and it does offer us a lot. ---
**Author:** ![gruven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a9a28c/32.png) [@gruven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gruven)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/48 "2003-02-06T20:43:21Z")
**yosemitebabe** , I agree. Thank you. I get equally upset whether it’s a 747 crashing, a military chopper crashing, or a space shuttle crashing. That’s why it bothers me to see so much more obvious grieving over this accident than any other’s that are currently occuring. ---
**Author:** ![kiwiboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/35a633/32.png) [@kiwiboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiwiboy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/49 "2003-02-06T20:50:58Z")
Aside from the grief factor, it’s also international news, as the first Indian and Israeli astronauts died. Even the [People’s Daily](http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200302/03/eng20030203_111102.shtml) is covering it closely. And they’re not renowned for their pro-US stance… > [@](#): > > "Exploring space is the common aspiration of all human beings,"wrote a netizen, “Setbacks or difficulties cannot hold us back. Let’s salute the heroes who have sacrificed their lives for science.” And the fools trying to profit from a tragedy deserve everything they get in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/50 "2003-02-06T21:58:53Z")
From what I heard on NPR a day or two ago they ARE prosecuting several people. But after the initial rounds of prosecution they are allowing people to return debris without being made someone bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/51 "2003-02-06T21:59:01Z")
I wonder if anyone turns out to have damages to their property by the shuttle debris, if they are going to be compensated by the government? ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/52 "2003-02-06T23:01:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tristan \* > \*\*Opening scene: a quiet house in the suburbs of Texas. A black vehicle pulls up, and a few men get out. They walk up to the door, knock, and wait. > > The door opens, and an older gentleman is there. He is well dressed, though a bit rumpled. > > Gentlman: Can I help you gentleman? > Agents: Are you Bob Smith? > Gentleman: Yes I am. > Agents: Do you have here in your posession debris alleged to be from the Space Shuttle Columbia? > Gentleman: Uh… No sir. > Agents: But you are advertising them on E-bay, are you not? > Gentleman: I want my lawyer! > Agents: You’re under arrest for disturbing evidence, evasion, and profiteering, as well as being an idiot. > > fine > [sub] dramatization[/sub] > > I have no problems with it. What if some tard is holding the circuit board that has the key clue to tell us what happened? \*\* This is very similar to the picture in my mind when I saw one of the network news anchors read the first eBay ad on the air. The ad mentioned the Texas town where the ‘merchandise’ was found. In the segment just previous, they had shown a correspondent in the same town, talking about the Texas National Guard mobilizing to help rope off the parts found in the area. In the background, there were at least 40 soldiers standing around waiting to be sent out to secure something. I could just imagine the troops showing up at the home of the eBay ‘entrepreneur.’ On the other hand, I’m not really in favor of jail time for these dimwits. Since they are obviously greedy and unscrupulous types, community service and a fine is more of a punishment. But well-publicized arrests are a good deterrent. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/53 "2003-02-06T23:18:14Z")
**gruven** , are you honestly that stupid? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/54 "2003-02-06T23:30:23Z")
Not honestly… he stole it. ---
**Author:** ![Hinten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecd19e/32.png) [@Hinten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hinten)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/55 "2003-02-07T00:48:51Z")
I think gruven is asking a relevant questions here. Although, there is no way to measure grief over one person lost or 1000 people lost. Which is worse? I don’t think that question can be answered. I do think it is interesting to note that measured in pure media coverage: 7 people voluntarily agreeing, fully informed about the risks, to participate in the firy sleigh ride in a old tin can in and out of the atmosphere, dramatically and unfortunately encounter a fatal accident, get more coverage than 20 people, not at all aware of any risk, thinking that they are taking a city hopper back from a business trip to get home on time for dinner crash into a field. Even stranger, you ask anyone on THAT day: Would you get into the next Space Shuttle tomorrow? They’d answer, YES! Again, now definetely fully informed and aware of the risks. Just strikes me as skewed. I hope I put enough qualifiers and modifiers in here to not get flamed… ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/56 "2003-02-07T01:06:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gruven \* > \*\ ***yosemitebabe** , > That’s why it bothers me to see so much more obvious grieving over this accident than any other’s that are currently occuring. \*\* /pretend gruven/ stop grieving you fools!! /pretend gruven/ ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/57 "2003-02-07T01:28:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ludovic \* > \*\*I wonder if anyone turns out to have damages to their property by the shuttle debris, if they are going to be compensated by the government? \*\* From the article linked by **Xploder** on the previous page: > [@](#): > > NASA has also set up a hot line for people to file a claim if their property has been damaged by debris: > > (281) 483-3021. I’ve thought a lot over the past few days about the question of why the deaths of seven astronauts in a space shuttle disaster make me grieve more than so many other deaths. The truth is that it is not possible for each of us to grieve over every death that occurs in this world. People die every day, some in horrible, tragic accidents. We pick and choose our grief – for those whom we knew personally, for those whom we felt we knew because of their celebrity, or because their lives or their works had touched us in some way, for those whose deaths seemed needlessly tragic, or which outraged us, for those whose deaths we know about because they received extensive media coverage, and for those who were engaged in a great scientific endeavor with the potential to impact humanity for generations to come. After watching the West Wing last night, and reading some articles today about the Rwandan genocide which was a focus of the episode, I am feeling a great deal of grief, and a little bit of guilt for not acknowledging the terrible suffering and injustice that occurred. But I don’t fault myself or anyone else for grieving more over the people we know about and with whom we feel some connection, than for the many others who die equally tragically. If you want to fault people for not doing more to improve helicopter or aircraft safety, or if you want to lobby for changes in the way budgetary funds are allocated for investigations, then by all means let your voice be heard. But grief is the most private of emotions, and you’re unlikely to get anywhere telling people how, when, or how much to grieve. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/58 "2003-02-07T05:55:57Z")
Okay, I don’t think that anyone here’s saying that shuttle debris is _more_ valuable than the wreckage from any other crash. If someone were attempting to profit from the debris of a plane crash, car crash, or other disaster, I’d have the same reaction to it that I do towards the folks snatching shuttle debris. As for why we appear to value the astronauts lives over those in the military or ordinary folks, it’s pretty simple: Not everyone can be an astronaut. I mean no disrespect to the men and women in the military, nor to ordinary folks, but how many of us can say that we could meet the qualifications to be an astronaut? Most of us, at one time or another, could pass the physical and mental requirements necessary to be in the military. Doesn’t mean we’d be good at it, but we could all probably do it. Astronaut? I’m betting that there’s only a handful of Dopers, at best who could pass muster. Also, the astronauts have been able to maintain a squeaky clean image, while the military has had it’s image tarnished occassionally in the past. The few scandals involving the astronauts have been relatively minor and are quickly forgotten. Not too many other organizations can say that. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/59 "2003-02-07T08:43:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\ ***gruven** , are you honestly that stupid? \*\* Gruven has a perfectly valid point. You’re just being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176/60 "2003-02-07T08:57:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*Gruven has a perfectly valid point. You’re just being a jerk. \*\* Uh, no he doesn’t. As has been well pointed out, the odds of the folks actually serving time are pretty slim, and this might come as a shock to you and **gruven** , but what they did _is_ a crime! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/space-shuttle-columbia-arrests-bullshit/153176.md?page=4)