# Spanish and US governments conspired to squash prosecution of soldiers who killed Reuters journalist **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2010, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099 "2010-12-14T09:29:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/41 "2010-12-14T22:45:58Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Just because a city is a war zone doesn’t give the military permission to attack non-military targets, like a hotel. Actually yes it does, unless and until the hotel surrenders or is in the control of said military. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/42 "2010-12-15T00:51:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > There was nothing disingenuous in my response. Just because you don’t like my answer doesn’t mean I’m prevaricating. > > I’m not sure I understand why you think I “fled” the thread. It seems I returned to post several times after **Lantern’s** last post. Sure, I didn’t respond to his last post, which I took to be a parting jab as he exited the conversation. > > To the extent that I did not feel his comment was worth responding to, I’m curious what your real goal here is: do you want me to participate more in these debates? Because your previous comment seems to say that you’d rather I shut up about it. It seems like comments I’d expect from someone with a borderline personality disorder: “Shut up and respond to this question!!!” > > And as for the specific question you asked: I’m not sure what the circumstances are in which I would think that an American should be extradited to another country for revealing classified information. I would think that our laws would probably prevent a journalist from being extradited under most conditions. > > In an alternate universe where that would not be an issue, under no circumstances would I support extraditing someone from the US to a country that has an unfair legal system. On the other hand, if someone in the US revealed secret information that, say, directly led to some catastrophic event like the assassination of the Queen, then I’d be inclined to say that they should answer for what they did. > > And my immediate thought is that Assange doesn’t seem like a journalist to me. Journalism, to me, is more than just posting someone else’s words on a virtual streetcorner. I’m open to arguments on why he’s a journalist, but it seems to me that he is probably doing harm to the profession of journalism, as stated in [this](http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/John-Hughes/2010/1214/WikiLeaks-real-victim-old-school-code-of-trust) op-ed. > > But I reject that Julian Assange is a journalist. I don’t think posting stolen documents on a website is journalism What the fucks your problem? Maybe I’m missing something but you’re coming in a thread about how the US suppressed evidence concerning the death of a cameraman and flinging your own feces with the force and volume of some hippopotamus/gorilla hybrid. Who the fuck cares if it’s true journalism. He got the fucking word out to this victim’s family. Don’t you think they deserve answers? How many other deaths of innocents were covered up by the subhuman pieces of shit involved in this war? As an American I’d like to know thoroughly my nationality has been slimed by those lying jackasses. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/43 "2010-12-15T01:34:43Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Maybe I’m missing something but you’re coming in a thread about how the US suppressed evidence concerning the death of a cameraman and flinging your own feces with the force and volume of some hippopotamus/gorilla hybrid. I’m missing the part where the US suppressed evidence, and Wikileaks unveiled it. The US asking Spanish officials to drop the case is not evidence of guilt or innocence for the three people being charged, and that appears to be all that Wikileaks has revealed. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/44 "2010-12-15T02:04:27Z")
This whole thing gets a big “meh” from me. And people asking about supposedly “hypocritical” positions taken by the US also get a resounding “meh.” We are us, so we can do whatever the hell we want to do. They are them, so we can say what they are doing is bad if we want to. That’s it. There is no such thing as some over-arching cosmic sense of right and wrong that governs all these issues. It is OK for citizens of the US to say (i) it’s OK for the US to do something and (ii) it’s not OK for another country to do the exact same thing. And the citizens of the other country can do the exact opposite. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/45 "2010-12-15T02:23:32Z")
Nice endorsement of tribalism, there. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/46 "2010-12-15T03:03:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Nice endorsement of tribalism, there. The guy you quoted is a sociopath, or a troll. Better to ignore his rantings. **Ravenman** , why should the US be meddling in Spanish courts? Further maybe not suppression of evidence, but there was significant resistance t the investigation process. [http://www.elpais.com/articulo/english/How/US/worked/to/get/three/soldiers/off/the/hook/for/cameraman/elpepueng/20101201elpeng\_14/Ten](http://www.elpais.com/articulo/english/How/US/worked/to/get/three/soldiers/off/the/hook/for/cameraman/elpepueng/20101201elpeng_14/Ten) > [@](#): > > Pedraz issued international arrest warrants for Gibson, Wolford and De Camp. In explaining his initiative, Pedraz said it was the only way he could get the three soldiers to testify because he wasn’t getting any cooperation from the US Justice Department. Most telling of this is the quote form the family: > [@](#): > > “It’s revolting how they played with us” > > The Couso family had always suspected it, but it wasn’t until the cablegrams were published this week that their worst fears were confirmed. > > “It is revolting the way they played with our feelings, with our pain,” said Lola Jiménez, the widow of Telecinco cameraman José Couso, killed in 2003 while working in Baghdad. “It is terrible how the United States pressured the government and the judicial authorities to close the case regarding my husband.” > > Javier Couso, José’s brother, admits that it was “very painful” to read the secret US diplomatic detailing of how then-US Ambassador Eduardo Aguirre tried to derail the case. “I would have liked to have seen my country defend national sovereignty instead of conspiring with a foreign country to throw a monkey wrench in the wheels of justice. It is scary,” he said. Why was the US government against this family getting closure? ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/47 "2010-12-15T04:31:56Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > The guy you quoted is a sociopath, or a troll. Better to ignore his rantings. > > **Ravenman** , why should the US be meddling in Spanish courts? > > Further maybe not suppression of evidence, but there was significant resistance t the investigation process. > > [http://www.elpais.com/articulo/english/How/US/worked/to/get/three/soldiers/off/the/hook/for/cameraman/elpepueng/20101201elpeng\_14/Ten](http://www.elpais.com/articulo/english/How/US/worked/to/get/three/soldiers/off/the/hook/for/cameraman/elpepueng/20101201elpeng_14/Ten) > > Most telling of this is the quote form the family: > > Why was the US government against this family getting closure? I would guess that the US does not give a damn about closure, they care about protecting their servicemen from witch hunts. The last thing we need our servicemen worrying about is being tried in foreign nations under foreign laws because someone’s countryman got killed in a war zone. The Spaniards wanted to arrest our men. That would have a significant negative effect on the morale of our troops. Think about how many foreign nationals are in Iraq right now. If every time some Jihadist volunteer was killed, would we allow the extradition of the entire chain of command to that particular Jihadist’s home nation? It would be a legal nightmare, plus we would be telling all of our volunteers that the US will hand them over to anyone with a complaint. I don’t see anything in the links showing new evidence, or evidence of a coverup of malfeasance by the US. I do see the US diplomatic corps trying to shut the whole thing up, which is part of their job. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/48 "2010-12-15T05:37:11Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > The guy you quoted is a sociopath, or a troll. Better to ignore his rantings. Oh, I do, never fear. I know all about Mr. **Rover**. I understand that he sells snowmobiles for a living. Or maybe ATVs. Anyway, my point is, I didn’t quote him. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/49 "2010-12-15T06:40:19Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > It is OK for citizens of the US to say (i) it’s OK for the US to do something and (ii) it’s not OK for another country to do the exact same thing. And the citizens of the other country can do the exact opposite. Well, that’s true in the sense that “It’s OK to say/do anything you like”. But the sticky point is that people will judge you by what you say and do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/50 "2010-12-15T07:54:41Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > I would guess that the US does not give a damn about closure, they care about protecting their servicemen from witch hunts. The last thing we need our servicemen worrying about is being tried in foreign nations under foreign laws because someone’s countryman got killed in a war zone. Yea just give em a license to shoot anyone with brown skin eh, and let god sort em out! > [@](#): > > The Spaniards wanted to arrest our men. That would have a significant negative effect on the morale of our troops. Think about how many foreign nationals are in Iraq right now. If every time some Jihadist volunteer was killed, would we allow the extradition of the entire chain of command to that particular Jihadist’s home nation? It would be a legal nightmare, plus we would be telling all of our volunteers that the US will hand them over to anyone with a complaint. > > I don’t see anything in the links showing new evidence, or evidence of a coverup of malfeasance by the US. I do see the US diplomatic corps trying to shut the whole thing up, which is part of their job. You’re saying the Spanish cameraman was a jihadist? Are you fucking stupid? Spain a Jihadist nation? How about the Ukraine? That a jihadist country too? Because a Ukrainian cameraman was also killed there. Why the hell wouldn’t the Department of Defense at least let the victims families have information about the people the incompetence of their troops killed? Why? They didn’t have to send the murderers over. Why was it too much to do the do decent human thing and at least cooperate in providing information for the investigation? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/51 "2010-12-15T14:00:21Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Well, that’s true in the sense that “It’s OK to say/do anything you like”. But the sticky point is that people will judge you by what you say and do. Agreed and understood. And sometimes that judging comes in the form of strongly worded missives on the internet penned by idiots (eg, TTR), whuich is the weakest of weak sauce. If people like TTR had the ability to actually think about what they are saying, they might realize that there’s simply no “should” in situations like this (ie, international relations). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099/52 "2010-12-15T16:05:20Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Why was it too much to do the do decent human thing and at least cooperate in providing information for the investigation? I’m not one to hand-wave off the pain experienced by the family in the unnecessary death of their son. It’s a tragedy, and I certainly do not criticize them in any way for doing all they can to get to the bottom of the case. However, it is my sense that they believe that someone must be held legally responsible for the death of their son. From the investigations I am aware of, both by the US military and [the Committee to Protect Journalists](http://cpj.org/reports/2006/01/js-killed-by-us-13sept05.php), seem to agree on the overall point that the attack was not “deliberate” but it was avoidable. In other words, it was an accident that should not have happened. It also seems to me that the standard of cooperation sought by the family’s attorneys is to have the three soldiers arrested and brought to Spain for investigation and prosecution for war crimes. Since at least two investigations – including one by an independent NGO – have concluded that this incident was not a war crime, I don’t think that it is fair to send the soldiers off to Spain to be arrested. To the extent that US soldiers commit war crimes, I think they should be prosecuted in the US justice system, which I do think is up to the task. To the extent that the family wants additional information on what happened, I think that’s a very reasonable request and the US government ought to provide the details of its investigations to Spanish authorities and the family. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-and-us-governments-conspired-to-squash-prosecution-of-soldiers-who-killed-reuters-journalist/564099.md?page=2)