# Spanish Invasion of England-What Was The Plan?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [October 12, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517 "2007-10-12T22:00:51Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517/1 "2007-10-12T22:00:51Z")
My question is prompted by the new Elizabeth I movie. I haven’t read much about Philip IV’s “Invincible Armada”, but what I understand was this:
-the Armada was to sail to the Netherlands, and put in to a north sea port (Antwerp), where it would take on the Spanish army under the command of the Duke of Parma. It would then engage the English, and land substantial numbers of troops on English soil. The Spanish plan was to encourage the English catholics to rise up and overhtrow the Tudoe monarchy. AS we all know, the plan went wrong-the Spanish galleons were no match for the smaller, faster english warships. Still, why did Philip abort the mission? He could have kep the ships in some German port, and planned another try. Why the horrible decision to sil back to Spain? Most of the ship losses took place in the journey back-they encountered severe storms off ireland, and most of the losses were due to this.
I’ve also heard that (had the Spanish troops landed0, the English forces would have been overwhelmed.
So, what was the biggest mistake that Philip made? 😕
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### Author:  [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517/2 "2007-10-12T22:45:34Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c]
So, what was the biggest mistake that Philip made? 😕
[/QUOTE]
Phillip didn’t really make any particular mistake, other than one of underestimation and under-provision. The Spanish Fleet just didn’t meet it’s objective - the English fleet disrupted the plan sufficiently that the Spaniards had to make a fighting retreat - with seriously diminishing supplies - up the east coast of Great Britain rather than risk the Channel again. Who the hell knows what would have happened if the army in the Netherlands had been embarked and an invasion launched.
I must say though that the prospect of an invasion of England led to this rather splendid speech at Tilbury, amongst the putative defending army, by Queen Elizabeth:
> [@](#):
>
> I have come amongst you as you see, at this time, not for my recreation and disport, but being resolved in the midst and heat of the battle to live or die amongst you all, to lay down for my God and for my kingdom, and for my people, my honour and my blood, even in the dust. I know I have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a king of England too.
That woman had, errr, balls of steel.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517/3 "2007-10-13T00:20:49Z")
Right. The Spanish were largely unlucky. It was also a fairly complicated plan, requiring coordination between the Armada and the army in the Netherlands, and there were communication problems between the two forces, which left the armada vulnerable and waiting.
The fleet sailed back to Spain because they were almost out of supplies and food and couldn’t stay at sea much longer. They sailed north around Scotland because they didn’t have much choice…they were being pursued by the English fleet and the wind was to the north. To go back through the channel would have required sailing in dangerous water, through the English fleet, in the face of the wind. They couldn’t have found a friendly port, because the only friendly port on that side of the channel was Dunkirk, which was being blocked by the English, and which also was too shallow for the Armada to shelter.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2007, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517/4 "2007-10-13T01:14:12Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c]
Still, why did Philip abort the mission? He could have kep the ships in some German port, and planned another try.
[/QUOTE]
Two comments - I don’t think that Philip aborted the mission - communications were so slow that once the Armada was in English waters, the commanders of the Armada had to make their own decisions - they couldn’t refer back to Madrid for orders.
Also, what German port? weren’t most of the north German territories Protestant/Lutheran? They wouldn’t be sympathetic to the Roman Catholic Spanish, who were attempting to overthrow the English Protestant government.
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2007, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517/5 "2007-10-13T12:39:09Z")
NOBODY expects the Spanish Armada! Our chief weapon is surprise…surprise and fear…fear and surprise… Our two weapons are fear and surprise…and ruthless efficiency… Our _three_ weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency…and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope… Our _four_…no… _Amongst_ our weapons… Amongst our weaponry…are such elements as fear, surprise… I’ll come in again.
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### Author:  [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2007, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517/6 "2007-10-14T11:12:25Z")
Philip was lucky,if he HAD managed to land an army he’d have lost that as WELL as his fleet.
Go on punch me in the stomach.
I’ll fight any man in the pub.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2007, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517/7 "2007-10-14T14:00:20Z")
There was a chapter on this in [_To Rule The Waves_](http://www.amazon.com/Rule-Waves-British-Shaped-Modern/dp/0060534257/ref=ed_oe_p/102-7942387-6584122), an excellent book recommended to me by **Spiny Norman**.
[Here’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada) a Wiki link on the planned invasion:
> [@](#):
>
> Everything went to plan, but after forcing its way up the English Channel, the Armada was attacked by a fleet of 200 English ships, assisted by the Dutch navy, in the North Sea at Gravelines off the coastal border between France and the Spanish Netherlands. A fire-ship attack drove the Armada ships from their anchorage, and in the ensuing battle the Spanish abandoned their rendezvous with Parma’s army.
IIRC from _To Rule The Waves_ the British ships were not as well armed as the Spanish ones, but they were more manuverable – and the ‘had the wind’. In those days the upwind ships held an advantage. Being upwind also allowed the British to send their fire ships into the Spanish fleet. So basically the British prevented the Spanish from picking up Parma’s army and foiled the invasion. After that they chased them north around Scotland, where the Spanish ran into a hurricane.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517/8 "2007-10-14T14:03:48Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life]
Philip was lucky,if he HAD managed to land an army he’d have lost that as WELL as his fleet.
Go on punch me in the stomach.
I’ll fight any man in the pub.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t want to fight you in a pub or anywhere else, but according to _To Rule The Waves_ they might have pulled it off. As I recall the plan was to land 50,000 soldiers in London. They didn’t have to take over the whole country; just secure the government.
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### Author:  [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-invasion-of-england-what-was-the-plan/422517/9 "2007-10-14T14:44:12Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
I don’t want to fight you in a pub or anywhere else, but according to _To Rule The Waves_ they might have pulled it off. As I recall the plan was to land 50,000 soldiers in London. They didn’t have to take over the whole country; just secure the government.
[/QUOTE]
Alright then !but I bet you I can out drink you.
Actually I think I might read TRTWs,sounds interesting.
Plus I bet my dads harder then your dad.