# Spanish Muslim clerics issue fatwa against Bin Laden. Do other Muslims honor this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 11, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538 "2005-08-11T01:33:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538/1 "2005-08-11T01:33:16Z")
Re the story linked below. Does this fatwa issued against Bin Laden have any practical import for other Muslims beyond the borders of Spain? [Fatwa Issued Against Bin Laden](http://cayankee.blogs.com/cayankee/2005/03/fatwa_issue_aga.html) > [@](#): > > Muslim clerics in Spain have issued the world’s first fatwa, or Islamic edict, against Osama bin Laden. According to the Associated Press, the fatwa issued on the first anniversary of the Madrid train bombings, calls bin Laden an apostate and urging others to denounce the al-Qaida leader: > > The ruling was issued by the Islamic Commission of Spain, the main body representing the country’s 1 million-member Muslim community. The commission represents 200 or so mostly Sunni mosques, or about 70 percent of all mosques in Spain. > The commission’s secretary general, Mansur Escudero, said the group had consulted with Muslim leaders in other countries, such as Morocco - home to most of the jailed suspects in the bombings - Algeria and Libya, and had their support. > > The fatwa said that according to the Quran “the terrorist acts of Osama bin Laden and his organization al-Qaida … are totally banned and must be roundly condemned as part of Islam.” > > It added: “Inasmuch as Osama bin Laden and his organization defend terrorism as legal and try to base it on the Quran … they are committing the crime of ‘istihlal’ and thus become apostates that should not be considered Muslims or treated as such.” The Arabic term ‘istihlal’ refers to the act of making up one’s own laws . ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538/2 "2005-08-11T01:56:01Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Re the story linked below. Does this fatwa issued against Bin Laden have any practical import for other Muslims beyond the borders of Spain? It doesn’t have any practical import within the borders of Spain, except insofar as some Muslims choose to respect it. It’s not like the Pope speaking ex cathedra for Catholics. It’s certainly an encouraging sign, but we’d need to know how influential these particular clerics are to know how influential it is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538/3 "2005-08-11T02:00:02Z")
It was issued five months ago and this is the first I’ve heard about it, too. Perhaps that’s a statement of its impact? It might be more imporant as part of a trend. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538/4 "2005-08-11T03:16:00Z")
You might want to check this out: [http://www.aqoul.com/archives/2005/07/fatwas\_against\_1.php#comments](http://www.aqoul.com/archives/2005/07/fatwas_against_1.php#comments) There’s other stuff on that site you may find interesting, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538/5 "2005-08-11T03:57:49Z")
> [@furt](#): > > It doesn’t have any practical import within the borders of Spain, except insofar as some Muslims choose to respect it. It’s not like the Pope speaking ex cathedra for Catholics. > > It’s certainly an encouraging sign, but we’d need to know how influential these particular clerics are to know how influential it is. I disagree - the edict excomunicates Bin Laden:“Inasmuch as Osama bin Laden and his organization defend terrorism as legal and try to base it on the Quran … they are committing the crime of ‘istihlal’ and thus become apostates that should not be considered Muslims or treated as such.” This is a big deal, maybe more so than supporting the war in Iraq. Bin Laden represents an ideological warrior who is asking his supporters to fall on their sword because it’s God’s will. He’s gone from spiritual messenger to infidel overnight. Potential bombers have to be wondering if the 72 virgins at the end of the rainbow are actually well endowed men. Which makes me wonder if female bombers are allotted their share of the carnal loot. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538/6 "2005-08-11T04:07:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > This is a big deal, maybe more so than supporting the war in Iraq. Bin Laden represents an ideological warrior who is asking his supporters to fall on their sword because it’s God’s will. He’s gone from spiritual messenger to infidel overnight. Although the kind of people who think he’s a spiritual messenger might think the clerics are apostates… I’m hoping for a modest effect on moderates, that’d be good. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538/7 "2005-08-11T04:46:15Z")
> [@astro](#): > > The Arabic term ‘istihlal’ refers to the act of making up one’s own laws Specifically, it means declaring lawful an act forbidden by God, thereby setting up your own authority in the place of God’s. The converse (a “converse” is a logical switcheroo, not an athletic shoe) would be _istihram_, declaring unlawful a licit act. Like cunnilingus. OK, I just made that last one up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538/8 "2005-08-11T12:51:08Z")
> [@furt](#): > > It doesn’t have any practical import within the borders of Spain, except insofar as some Muslims choose to respect it. It’s not like the Pope speaking ex cathedra for Catholics. Actually, it’s very much like the Pope speaking _ex cathedra_\* for Catholics. He can make such a prononoucement, but it’s up to individual Catholics to act according to his statement. Neither the Pope nor the Church can impose an extra-religous punishment upon those who fail to comply. It differs from that situation because Islam does not support the concept of a supreme leader of all Muslims.\*\* Thus, Muslims who do not agree with the content of a particular \*fatwa \* are free to consult other clerics without declared apostates by a recognized authority. \*When the Pope speaks _ex cathedra_, his pronouncement is considered infallible and absolutely binding upon all Catholics. \*\*Shi’ite Islam is an exception, in that there is a clerical hierarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538/9 "2005-08-11T20:25:21Z")
I’m sure that the type of muslims inclined to actually carry out a fatwa are the extreme fanatics that are the problem in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spanish-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-bin-laden-do-other-muslims-honor-this/316538/10 "2005-08-11T20:37:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m sure that the type of muslims inclined to actually carry out a fatwa are the extreme fanatics that are the problem in the first place. A fatwa is simply a religious legal judgment, which can cover anything from inheritance disputes to questions of theology to the best way to wipe your ass.